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Episode 7

The Best of Times | S1E7

We travel back to January 1986 to discuss Kurt Russell's charming performance in a team-up with Robin Williams for the sports dramedy, The Best of Times.

I'm joined by Crag Cohen, a fellow Last of the Action Heroes Podcast Network host.

Originally from the east coast, Craig Cohen now lives in Las Vegas, Nevada with his wife and 2 Yorkies, Frida and Frankie Ramone. In his free time he enjoys podcasting, reading and listening to and creating music. You can check out Craig's work: https://www.flowcode.com/page/mrcraigcohen

Please get in touch to tell me what you think - RetromadePodcast@gmail.com

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Transcript
Speaker:

these people came here and I checked.

Speaker:

Watch your kids.

Speaker:

Are there half came to see you drop.

Speaker:

I was going to throw it.

Speaker:

It's to show you up but i want to win I'm calling somebody

Speaker:

else's number I can get open.

Speaker:

You dropped that damn thing i get Jack.

Speaker:

your life is over Just throw me the goddamn ball reno

Katie:

Hello.

Katie:

Hello, I'm Katie and welcome to Retro Made Your Pop Culture Rewind.

Katie:

Are you ready for another trip down memory lane?

Katie:

Today we're gonna travel back to January of 1986 to discuss the sports dramedy

Katie:

the best of times and all of the other happenings, going on at that time.

Katie:

And today I could not be more honored to have Craig Cohen here with me today.

Katie:

He has been podcasting for quite a while and is one of the favorites from the last

Katie:

of the Action Heroes Podcast Network.

Katie:

And despite us both being on that network and both covering Sylvester

Katie:

Slo, happy belated birthday sly.

Katie:

By the way, this is actually the first time that Craig

Katie:

and I are officially meeting.

Katie:

Can you believe it?

Craig:

I know it's, it's crazy.

Craig:

And thank you so much for having me on.

Craig:

I've, , really enjoy, , the concept of your show, and I, I'm looking

Craig:

forward to talking to the, this movie because um, according to my Google

Craig:

uh, searches, I couldn't really find anybody else that has talked about this.

Katie:

That would not surprise

Craig:

But with the title of the movie, it's kind of hard.

Craig:

Anytime you put best in a search engine, you know, it comes up with things.

Craig:

But, um, yeah, I, I always love talking to movies that haven't really

Craig:

gotten a lot of podcast coverage.

Katie:

Yeah, that's a really good point.

Katie:

Well, thank you again for joining me.

Katie:

Do you wanna

Craig:

it's my

Katie:

give us a quick little rundown of what you're working on?

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

A aside from the, guest spots I do on the network, I think the

Craig:

main show you'll hear me on is the sort of monthly or almost monthly

Craig:

show that I do with Ryan and Doug.

Craig:

And we, you know, have been burning through most of Slys lesser

Craig:

fun movies or, quality movies.

Craig:

So that's ma my main podcast outlet right now.

Craig:

And then, , during the pandemic, I was furloughed for about 15 months and

Craig:

it allowed me to have a lot of time to spend with my wife and my dogs.

Craig:

Uh, But it also allowed me to sort of re-explore my love of making music.

Craig:

So, uh, that's really what I spend a lot of my uh, my free time on is,

Craig:

you know, uh, instrumental based, uh, Weird sounding music that,

Craig:

um, I have a lot of fun making,

Katie:

It's impressive.

Craig:

not people have fun listening.

Craig:

Oh, thank you, . It's a really really fun process.

Craig:

Like For me, making music is like solving a a math problem almost.

Craig:

You know, you start with something and then you're like, well,

Craig:

how does, how do I get to where it, it's gonna sound the way it needs to sound.

Craig:

It's been cool.

Craig:

It's been a fun process and, , it's something I really enjoy doing and

Craig:

it's kind of filled, a little void that was, created when I stopped really,

Craig:

really really actively podcasting.

Craig:

And I've said this on pretty much every podcast I guest on.

Craig:

But, as the the creator and host of this show, I'm sure, you

Craig:

know, uh, how much work goes into creating even a 90 minute podcast.

Craig:

I appreciate all the work podcasters do and, uh, having.

Craig:

You know, Produced and edited shows myself, uh, some of those

Craig:

slide cast episodes we did were three close to three hours.

Craig:

And like

Katie:

Oh wow.

Craig:

a, editing a three hour show is just not fun, especially when you're,

Craig:

as, meticulous , as I tended to be when I was editing again, I appreciate

Craig:

all the work podcasters do and, uh, one thing about the, the network, um,

Craig:

is the quality of shows we have and the lineup, that Ryan has assembled.

Craig:

It's really remarkable and, um, I think the, the network is is such a cool thing.

Craig:

And, If one of your favorite podcasters on the network isn't

Craig:

podcasting, somebody else is putting

Craig:

great, great content up there.

Craig:

Uh, And I hate the fact that I just said content, but, uh,

Katie:

I'm the same way.

Katie:

I hate it when people say content creator.

Katie:

It's a big pet peeve,

Katie:

like it's an ick to

Katie:

me

Katie:

somehow,

Katie:

but

Katie:

yeah,

Craig:

As creatives most of us are doing this because we enjoy

Craig:

it and we get something out of it.

Craig:

Um, so the fact that, you know, you could say something that's

Craig:

artistic uh, in nature is content.

Craig:

It just sort of makes it sound like something you feed into

Craig:

the internet meat grinder

Katie:

agreed.

Craig:

But we've been so conditioned to call it content

Craig:

It even slipped into my vernacular

Katie:

Same.

Katie:

Well said.

Katie:

And , listeners, unlike me, Craig is very well spoken, so we'll be treated to

Katie:

that over the course of today's episode.

Katie:

. Let's get into , the 1980s frame of mind by opening the time

Katie:

capsule from January of 1986.

Katie:

Now the 19 85 86 primetime season.

Katie:

The popular shows included, as always, it seems The Cosby Show, family Ties, murder.

Katie:

She wrote, cheers, Dallas and Dynasty, the Golden Girls, and this

Katie:

was actually their premier season and they're always in the top, top

Katie:

rankings for any season they're on.

Katie:

I'm a huge Golden Girls fan, Miami Vice, who's the boss and night court.

Katie:

So that's topping the

Katie:

ratings that

Katie:

year.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

And I I think that was Miami Vice's second season, I think, cuz I I

Craig:

think they started in the fall of 84.

Craig:

Um, Miami Vice is one of my all time favorite

Katie:

Really?

Katie:

Did you like the movie,

Katie:

movies,

Craig:

I did, I

Craig:

I.

Craig:

Yeah, I, I did.

Craig:

Um, And the thing I appreciated about it is, you know, Miami Vice had this

Craig:

element where, um, Don Johnson's character, Sonny, um, was undercover.

Craig:

And I think as the seasons went on, they got a little bit more into the

Craig:

undercover aspect of his, of his job.

Craig:

But that was one thing I think the movie did remarkably well.

Craig:

And you know, Michael Mann is a very detail-oriented guy, and that movie

Craig:

really explored , Undercover from a law enforcement perspective uh, in a way

Craig:

that I think was a lot more detailed than, you know, most of the time we see

Craig:

in movies and you're never gonna get the accurate experience, but the idea of what

Craig:

they did to establish covers and how far back they needed to establish people and

Craig:

what databases they needed to populate, so if searches were run, uh, and then

Craig:

also just really to show the, like the toll that,, undercover work takes on

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

I think maybe like Donny Brasco was another movie that explored that

Craig:

pretty well, but, and then there was just some tremendous, action sequences

Craig:

in Miami Vice and not like spectacular, crazy, you know, outta this world stuff.

Craig:

But there were some like gunfights, uh, one in particular was like in a scrap

Craig:

yard where they had like a 50 cal.

Craig:

And I remember seeing that in theaters and like when they shot

Craig:

that 50 caliber like you felt it.

Craig:

Um, you know, just because, uh, the movie, you know, the mo, at least

Craig:

the movie theater, I saw it in like, they used to play everything.

Craig:

So like,

Craig:

ridiculously loud.

Craig:

A funny story, like probably around the time like Armageddon was out.

Craig:

Um, you know, Me and a buddy went to see like a small movie that, you know, that

Craig:

summer and like in the small movie, when it was quiet, you could hear Armageddon

Craig:

next door because it was so loud.

Katie:

I remember that effect happening as well.

Craig:

And it's funny because Miami Vice is not like a kid show, but it, it's

Craig:

so funny how, you know, people around, my age, you know, probably your age,

Craig:

uh, and probably not even like, I, I'm probably generalizing just because of

Craig:

my experiences, but being exposed to things as a kid that aren't for kids

Craig:

really sort of helped shape, you know, the things that you go on to appreciate.

Katie:

I could not agree more throughout doing these episodes.

Katie:

I've come to learn that . I'm the youngest child as well, so I, I saw a lot of

Katie:

things probably that weren't appropriate for me to see, but I'm glad that I did

Katie:

I think I just have a different frame of reference than younger people

Katie:

these days.

Craig:

It's always funny because, everybody thinks that their experience

Craig:

in childhood was, , markedly different than, you know, the kids today.

Craig:

But kids today, 20, 30 years from now, they're gonna have the same, remember

Craig:

when moments, you know, they're not gonna be framed the same as ours,

Craig:

but, they're still gonna, you know, kind of, you know, looking back and

Craig:

and, nostalgia and, you know, that kind of viewpoint is always gonna exist.

Craig:

And that's one of the Interesting things about getting older.

Craig:

Is just, the things you look back on, the things that made an impact on you.

Craig:

And then also like seeing yourself slowly, you know, get out of touch.

Craig:

Especially when you see TikTok trends and things like that and you're

Craig:

like, wow, I I just don't get it.

Craig:

And that's okay

Craig:

cuz I'm not supposed to.

Craig:

But like, you understand why like, parents went ape shit when like Elvis came out,

Katie:

That's a good point.

Katie:

You're making me feel old though now, Craig , but that's true.

Katie:

While not in the top rankings, some of the notable premieres

Katie:

of this season included 2 27.

Katie:

Do you remember that show with

Katie:

Marla

Katie:

Gibbs

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

That was a,

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

Uh, Jack Hay.

Katie:

j

Craig:

Um, yeah.

Craig:

That was a spinoff of the

Craig:

Jeffersons.

Katie:

I thought it might have been was the Jefferson set.

Katie:

I'm a little confused because 2 27

Katie:

was set in Washington

Katie:

DC

Craig:

Okay.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

No, Jefferson's was, was New York

Craig:

City.

Katie:

maybe they just moved

Katie:

or

Katie:

something.

Craig:

Well It's it's always funny how like they would get creative with spinoffs

Craig:

cuz it's like, oh, we like this character, but we don't meet them in the same

Katie:

That's true.

Craig:

Another interesting spinoff that a lot of people don't know is, family

Craig:

Matters with Urkel was a spinoff of

Craig:

Strangers.

Craig:

Because I think the wife on Family Matters was like the elevator

Craig:

operator at their building.

Katie:

right.

Katie:

You're right.

Katie:

Cuz family matters came later.

Katie:

Yes, that's exactly right.

Katie:

There were

Katie:

a lot of spinoffs at

Katie:

this

Katie:

time,

Craig:

You know what else is funny?

Craig:

The one thing that's great about streaming is there's still a lot of

Craig:

stuff you can't stream, but there's a lot of stuff that even like 10 years ago,

Craig:

like unless you were buying complete seasoned DVDs, it was hard to watch.

Craig:

But, uh, one of the funniest things is watching a show from the

Craig:

eighties and seeing like these, secret pilot episodes for other shows.

Craig:

So it's like, we're gonna try and spin off this show.

Craig:

But this episode, like the main cast won't really be in it.

Craig:

There'll be like other characters that were gonna try and spin off, and then

Craig:

either the show spun off successfully or it was like, They made that episode, it

Craig:

didn't hit the way it was supposed to.

Craig:

And now it's just this like, weird episode that doesn't feature, like in

Craig:

Miami Vice's case, you know, I don't think there is one, but like, that

Craig:

doesn't feature Crockett and Tubbs,

Katie:

you know,

Katie:

It's funny that, that's a really good point, and it's blatant when you see it.

Katie:

There was one in the Golden Girls where they were trying to spin off.

Katie:

It ended up being the Empty Nests spinoff, but the people in the episode that they

Katie:

were trying to spin off the original, like that episode, none of those people

Katie:

except for Charlie Leisure's david

Craig:

recast everybody

Craig:

else.

Craig:

Yeah.

Katie:

character.

Katie:

Charlie was the only one who stayed, and everyone, the set was the same.

Katie:

It was the same house, but the entire cast was different.

Katie:

And it is notoriously the worst Golden Girls episode despite having Rita

Katie:

Moreno

Katie:

in it.

Craig:

It's funny to see like, you know, what ingredients get, you know,

Craig:

Uh, worked on when a, a pilot, uh, or a show's being developed, three's company,

Craig:

which is another, show I have a lot

Craig:

of fondness

Katie:

same.

Craig:

There's like three different pilot episodes where there's like a

Craig:

different Janet, a different Chrissy.

Katie:

really?

Craig:

yeah, it was just like, let's see what, what

Craig:

chemistry people have with Jack.

Craig:

And on the first one they're like, well, obviously this Chrissy isn't

Craig:

working, so we're gonna replace her.

Craig:

I think they're on the, like the first season or the second season, d v d,

Craig:

they included them as bonus features,

Katie:

Oh, cool.

Craig:

I always get a kick outta watching pilot episodes that were redone.

Craig:

Star Trek is another classic one.

Craig:

Star Trek is my, one of my all time favorite shows.

Craig:

The original Precap Kirk pilot episode, uh, is really interesting to watch.

Craig:

And they actually ended up like cannibalizing that episode in a later

Craig:

episode once it went to series where like they used footage from that

Craig:

episode and kind of tied it together.

Craig:

I mean if you watch that original, , star Trek pilot, Spock is like just

Craig:

different enough that you're like, what's going on with Spock and things?

Craig:

It's wild how much thought used to go into television and and I'm not sure a lot goes

Craig:

into television you know, thinking about television anymore, you know, in terms of,

Craig:

I think they've got it figured out enough.

Craig:

They're like, you know, we know what character types we

Craig:

need, and things like that.

Craig:

Whereas, I don't know, it seems like TV in the seventies and eighties it

Craig:

was kind of still like the wild wild

Katie:

It was, there's a lot of formula involved, but I agreed.

Katie:

There was more risks to be taken or something, it seems.

Katie:

So growing Pains also premiered this season, which I loved that show.

Katie:

And that's more formulaic family show.

Katie:

But then we have Small Wonder, the Little Girl Robot, so that's very off the Wall.

Katie:

And then

Katie:

Mr.

Katie:

Belvedere,

Craig:

Oh,

Katie:

I loved that.

Katie:

And what's interesting is that they're just a regular middle

Katie:

class family that somehow.

Katie:

Can afford to have a butler, and that's also a theme.

Katie:

I think that was throughout the eighties and nineties,

Katie:

a

Katie:

little

Katie:

bit.

Craig:

And that was that trend that continued, like three's company

Craig:

was based on a, a British sitcom.

Craig:

And so was, mr.

Craig:

Bevel dear, I believe, yeah.

Craig:

Like that was a, like a, a big thing.

Craig:

And, , even up until the office, you know, the office was a, a

Craig:

UK show that they were like, oh, let's adapt it for us audiences.

Craig:

Mr.

Craig:

Belvedere is a show.

Craig:

I remember us watching Growing Pains With One.

Craig:

I remember us watching.

Craig:

It's weird though because, you know, a lot of times I, I try and like,

Craig:

think about was I wor watching that first run or was it like when it

Craig:

hit syndication and I would watch it like when I got home from school

Katie:

I remember Three's company, but I don't, I was not

Katie:

old enough to have watched it.

Katie:

So a lot of the shows that I have references to, I believe I was watching in

Katie:

syndication, reruns of them in many cases.

Katie:

But Moonlighting also premiered this season.

Katie:

MacGyver uh, I remember very much watching my mom must have liked Moonlighting

Katie:

and my dad must have liked MacGyver.

Katie:

That was classic.

Katie:

And then also ww f primetime wrestling on the u s A network.

Katie:

Were you a wrestling

Katie:

fan?

Craig:

Yeah, it's so funny because, uh, I'm in an age group where we are related

Craig:

to people that watched wrestling when it was still considered a competitive sport.

Craig:

. So like, you know, my like my dad's grandparents, my great-grandparents,

Craig:

they would watch, you know, W W W F matches in the, you know, fifties and

Craig:

sixties and, you know, they didn't, the business hadn't been exposed yet.

Craig:

We definitely grew up, um, around that and sort of the golden age of w

Craig:

w F, you know, where it transitioned from, like Bob Baklan to Hulk

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

it kind of got more theatric and like WrestleMania exploded.

Craig:

Wrestling was a big part of, Of our time growing up.

Craig:

They used to come through, and this is so funny because of how big wrestling

Craig:

is now, but they used to come through the boys club like maybe four times a

Craig:

year, and it was just like, you know, your typical high school gymnasium, so it

Craig:

only, it would be a couple hundred people.

Craig:

And you wouldn't get the super big stars.

Craig:

Like you wouldn't get Macho Man or Hogan, but you'd get like Junkyard Dog or Don

Craig:

Morocco.

Craig:

, And then I also remember before Pay-Per-View, uh,

Craig:

WrestleMania too, I believe.

Craig:

We watched on closed circuit, so you'd go to the boys club, you buy a ticket, and

Craig:

they'd have a probably what by today's standard is like a real shitty screen and

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

And you'd watch, you know, the closed circuit feed with everyone else.

Craig:

And then probably the next year is when they finally figured out

Craig:

how to like do pay-per-view and you were able to just order it

Craig:

through your cable provider at home.

Craig:

But yeah, no wrestling was, a big, big part of my uh, my adolescence.

Katie:

Yeah, that seems to be a common theme.

Katie:

It was even for me.

Katie:

My grandpa watched it a lot.

Craig:

The other funny thing about wrestling is, um, you mentioned

Craig:

primetime wrestling, but, uh, there was on USA Network, they used to

Craig:

do the Cartoon Express, I think

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

I loved it.

Katie:

We talked about it.

Katie:

I talked about

Katie:

it on another

Katie:

previous

Katie:

episode,

Katie:

I think.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

So the Cartoon Express would end and then they'd have like, whatever the

Craig:

10:00 AM or 11:00 AM w w F show was, I, I don't remember what they called it.

Craig:

So I think that's what kind of got kids in, they were like, we're

Craig:

gonna go from cartoons to wrestling.

Craig:

So I think a lot of kids were just, Introduced or, exposed to wrestling

Craig:

through that and, you know, the proximity to cartoons sort of, uh,

Craig:

continued to engage that sort of fantasy element of a, of a kid's mind.

Craig:

That was a great great time to watch wrestling because

Katie:

It

Katie:

was.

Craig:

You still thought it was real, but there was rumblings that it wasn't so,

Craig:

it was kind of like a Santa Claus factor,

Katie:

a good way to

Katie:

put

Katie:

it.

Craig:

where you're like at that

Craig:

point

Craig:

where you're like, I don't, logic says I shouldn't believe, but I still

Craig:

wanna, believe a little bit, I've always leaned towards that, like, you

Craig:

know, in the molder and Scully of the you know, the X-Files personalities.

Craig:

Uh, I always lean way heavier, molder like, I'm like the, I wanna believe

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

I like that.

Katie:

I do.

Katie:

Now continuing on with the time that Butler's were really popular.

Katie:

These were shows that ended in 86 Benson and different strokes.

Katie:

Both Butler Both had butler's or some sort of live-in person

Katie:

that helped around the house.

Katie:

And then night writer.

Katie:

I never watched night writer

Katie:

though,

Katie:

did you?

Craig:

Oh, oh yeah.

Craig:

Night rider

Craig:

was big for, you know that car.

Craig:

I mean, anytime you had a kick ass car, like you got the kids,

Craig:

Duke's a hazard night rider.

Katie:

That totally makes sense.

Katie:

Now I'm not gonna go into a ton of cartoons cuz there's a lot of

Katie:

repeats that we've already covered.

Katie:

And we talked about the Cartoon Express, but one that I had to call out because it

Katie:

premiered this season was Shira Princess of Power, the twin sister to Heman.

Katie:

Did you watch either of them or were you

Katie:

into

Katie:

Heman

Craig:

Yeah, I think we might have been just starting to age out because I

Craig:

remember some of my younger cousins were like super, super he men, and I think

Craig:

we were still like GI Joe Guy, you know, me and my brother were like GI Joe guys.

Craig:

But I remember like going over my my cousin's house and they would have all

Craig:

the Heman stuff, but I don't really remember watching that cartoon too much.

Craig:

It's one of those things where it's so big and so popular that you can't help

Craig:

but like know all the names of all the characters, and all those kinds of things.

Craig:

But yeah, I think I might have been just at the, you know, the tail end.

Craig:

It's like the same thing with like Ninja Turtles as well.

Katie:

Same.

Katie:

I'm the same with that cuz I'm a girl, but it's in my periphery

Katie:

I'm aware of it and it's just, it's become like a pop culture phenomenon.

Katie:

So, but for those of you who really liked Shira or Heman I love Shira.

Katie:

Her name is Adora and his name was Adam.

Katie:

So Adora and Adam and her horse or her flying Unicorn.

Katie:

I didn't recall that.

Katie:

His name was Swift Wind.

Katie:

And that he man's Green Tiger is Battlecat.

Katie:

I think I remember

Katie:

Bat

Katie:

Battlecat

Katie:

more so,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Battlecat, I remember.

Katie:

nice little blast from the past there.

Katie:

So the movie we're covering is January of 1986, so we're

Katie:

just a month after Christmas.

Katie:

This was huge for the toy season that Christmas.

Katie:

Do you have any guesses for what the big toys of that season were?

Craig:

We're too late for Cabbage Patch Kids.

Craig:

Right.

Katie:

Nope.

Katie:

Cabbage Patch Kids is one.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

Okay.

Craig:

Um, God, those were like the Craz behind Cavi Patch Kids was crazy.

Craig:

I don't know.

Craig:

I want to say maybe like pound puppies.

Katie:

I think that was actually like a year or two later

Katie:

that those got really big.

Katie:

But yeah, I loved those.

Katie:

But yeah, cabbage Patch Kids this year, the biggest

Katie:

was Teddy R.

Katie:

Spin.

Craig:

Oh yeah.

Craig:

You put the cassette in and you'd talk Oh, yeah, yeah.

Katie:

I didn't actually have one, but my, my

Katie:

neighbor

Katie:

did.

Craig:

Those same, he-man cousins.

Craig:

They had a teddy

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

, my cousins

Katie:

And then Care Bears of course, huge.

Katie:

Actually still have mine and my Cabbage Patch doll.

Katie:

And then for boys, I mean, it was very gender specific.

Katie:

It seems back in the day,

Katie:

the

Katie:

Transformers

Katie:

and GI

Craig:

yeah.

Katie:

So those were the big toys that year.

Craig:

And I think Hasbro did both GI Joe and and Transformers,

Craig:

they had some big ticket items.

Craig:

Like, I don't remember what a cabbage hatch doll

Craig:

cost.

Katie:

were

Katie:

really

Katie:

expensive.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

But I think it was also a supply and demand thing, but

Craig:

like,

Katie:

So,

Craig:

Uh, I mean, was what Cabbage Patch Doll, $40?

Katie:

I think so.

Katie:

I think at, which would be like, I think I've looked up the equivalent.

Katie:

It would be like a about a hundred bucks now or maybe

Katie:

more, something

Katie:

like

Katie:

that.

Craig:

But like GI Joe and Transformers, like GI Joe had their,

Craig:

aircraft carriers.

Craig:

And that thing had to be like, probably like 60 or $70

Katie:

wow.

Craig:

There was like a point where Transformers kind of like got

Craig:

involved in well, how can we steal some of like,, Voltron's audience?

Craig:

So they

Craig:

had all construction equipment.

Craig:

That would form like one big, you know, Voltron style transformer,

Craig:

um, construct a cons maybe.

Craig:

Uh, They never got really creative with names.

Craig:

Uh, And that I remember that was like another big big ticket.

Craig:

Um, you know, It was like a difference between selling like a $4 action

Craig:

figure and like the $60, you know, aircraft carrier for them to all fight

Craig:

on.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Christmas.

Katie:

Like it was a big, and there you couldn't buy things online, so

Katie:

you had to go physically to the store and it's probably gone.

Katie:

You

Katie:

have to, yeah.

Katie:

It was the whole thing.

Katie:

Thank you

Katie:

Mom and

Katie:

dad.

Craig:

I, still, I, oh, I, well, yeah, I thank you.

Craig:

Indeed.

Craig:

I still feel bad about the amount of money, uh, my parents spent on,

Craig:

like, stuff that just eventually either got sold for pennies on the

Craig:

dollar at a garage sale, or, you know, just eventually got thrown out.

Craig:

As an adult that's things you appreciate.

Craig:

You're like, how, you know

Katie:

so much.

Craig:

Yeah..

Craig:

Like.

Katie:

I very much appreciate

Katie:

the Way that I

Katie:

grew

Katie:

up.

Katie:

Yeah,

Craig:

yeah,

Craig:

I don't know if I'd have it in me to spend, , that kind of money, but,

Katie:

well I waste a lot of money on my dogs, so I don't

Katie:

have the humans, just the dogs.

Katie:

And a lot of people are like, why would you spend that much money on

Katie:

X, Y, or

Katie:

Z?

Craig:

No, no, that's a good point.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Now I usually do like the top five or the top 10 billboards

Katie:

for, from a music perspective.

Katie:

But I went to 15 today because there's some good

Katie:

ones and so many, and two from Rocky four.

Katie:

Now, for those of you listening, so this movie, bastard Times

Katie:

came out in January of 1986.

Katie:

Rocky four was immensely popular, and it came out like over Thanksgiving probably.

Katie:

In 1985, so just a couple months previous.

Katie:

So there's, that was like a huge thing going on at this time.

Katie:

But the number one Top Billboards is, that's what Friends are for

Katie:

by Dionne Warwick, featuring Elton John, Gladys Knight,

Katie:

Stevie Wonder, you remember that

Katie:

song?

Craig:

Oh yeah.

Craig:

Uhhuh.

Katie:

then the number two song, this comes from Rocky four.

Katie:

Do you have a guess Craig

Craig:

God, I'm, uh, showing my lack of extreme sly knowledge.

Katie:

Burning Heart by

Katie:

Survivor?

Katie:

I can literally picture their, like are showing up in Russia at

Katie:

this time when that song comes on.

Katie:

Yeah, that's a good one.

Katie:

And then Whams, I'm Your Man is number three.

Katie:

Stevie Nicks has number four with Talk to me.

Katie:

Say, you say me, Lionel Richie is number five.

Katie:

Bruce Springsteen's, my hometown is number six.

Katie:

And then number seven is when the going gets tough, the tough

Katie:

gets going by Billy Ocean and Paul McCartney with spies like us

Katie:

is number eight.

Katie:

I

Katie:

don't think I,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Those are both, Those are both movie songs, right?

Craig:

Like Spies Like Us

Katie:

I, what was it?

Katie:

A James

Katie:

Bond movie?

Katie:

it

Katie:

kind of sounds like it

Craig:

no, it was like a,

Craig:

It was like a Chevy Chase.

Craig:

it was like a Dan Arod, it was a comedy.

Craig:

And then of course, uh, that Billy Ocean song was in, was that the romancing,

Craig:

the, the, was that the jewel of the Nile?

Katie:

Ooh, which one it is?

Katie:

It's, it is one of those

Katie:

and I should know cuz I

Katie:

covered both of them.

Craig:

I think 80.

Craig:

Yeah, I think 86 would've been Juul of

Craig:

Nile.

Craig:

Right.

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

Mm.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Probably like 84 and 86.

Katie:

So yes, it would've been Juul denial.

Katie:

Yep, you're right.

Craig:

Spies like us.

Craig:

I, I'm, I'm not

Katie:

me neither.

Katie:

I can't picture that one.

Katie:

Number nine is Walk of Life by Dire Straits.

Craig:

Oh, that was a big song.

Katie:

Stevie Wonders.

Katie:

Go Home is number 10.

Katie:

And how will I know is Whitney Houston is number 11.

Katie:

And then uh, conga is number 12 by

Katie:

Gloria es Stefan's.

Craig:

Miami Sound Machine.

Craig:

Yeah.

Katie:

Kyrie by Mr.

Katie:

Mr.

Craig:

Mr.

Katie:

I can't picture that song

Katie:

though,

Craig:

I'd attempt it, but, um, I, I, I couldn't hit the notes as well

Katie:

Oh, no, no.

Craig:

You'd know it if you heard it.

Katie:

And then I hadn't heard of this either.

Katie:

Number 14 is I miss You by Climax, and Climax is spelled K L Y M

Katie:

A X X.

Craig:

Yeah,

Craig:

they were like, uh, kind of like those, like proto, like r and B

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Oh,

Katie:

okay.

Katie:

Got it.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Like kind of like that soft, like not a Rick James r and b, but more

Katie:

Casey and Jojo

Katie:

or something like that,

Katie:

or,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

like kind of Yeah.

Craig:

Smoother, like, yeah, like lessen, like more of like the radio

Katie:

Okay.

Craig:

um, you know, As opposed to like Rick James, which is like, I'm gonna

Craig:

kick down your front door and, you

Katie:

Super freak

Craig:

to take a shower after you listen.

Craig:

Yeah.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Do you have a guess?

Katie:

Number 15 is also from Rocky four.

Katie:

So we've already done Burning Heart by Survivor.

Katie:

Is there another Rocky

Katie:

Four song you remember?

Craig:

Was Harts on fire in part

Katie:

it was,

Katie:

but it didn't top

Katie:

the charts

Katie:

this week.

Craig:

Oh, wow.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

No, I'm gonna need

Katie:

Well we just had the 4th of July.

Katie:

Living in

Katie:

America.

Katie:

James

Katie:

Brown.

Craig:

Oh, right, okay.

Craig:

Wow.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Wow.

Craig:

So that was,

Katie:

So that's the, that's number 15.

Katie:

So those were some fun billboards.

Katie:

What a, like, We're in the mid eighties.

Katie:

Very much so during this time.

Katie:

So

Katie:

lots of fun stuff.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

And you mentioned wham,

Katie:

Oh yeah.

Craig:

um,

Craig:

they just put up That that wham documentary on, um, on Netflix, which

Craig:

we watched, uh, last night, which

Katie:

How was it?

Craig:

It was interesting.

Craig:

It's good, I was never a huge wham fan, especially when

Katie:

I'm more

Katie:

George Michael.

Craig:

it's one of

Craig:

the things As as, as you get older, you start to appreciate at least

Craig:

the musicianship and the talent

Craig:

involved.

Craig:

But like, you know, in 1986, I was not listening to Wham.

Craig:

Um, It was good.

Craig:

the interesting thing about it was they kind of framed it, and I don't

Craig:

know if this is like revisionism or it's just the way it was, but they

Craig:

framed it as like everybody involved knew that Wham was just a vehicle

Craig:

to eventually get George Michael

Katie:

Oh.

Craig:

Obviously George Michael isn't here to, clarify that, but they use

Craig:

a lot of archival interviews with him.

Craig:

And it seems like they always knew that like, you know, They were gonna take

Craig:

off and it was gonna be a springboard to George Michael being a solo artist.

Craig:

And again, that was kind of a, a revelation that was

Craig:

really surprising to me.

Craig:

And it, it's also shocking, Katie, that like how short Whams time was,

Craig:

it was like a two year window where they went from obscurity to like

Craig:

superstar and then they were done.

Craig:

And George Michael went off and did his solo career.

Craig:

It's cool though.

Craig:

It's one of those documentaries and this is kind of a style.

Craig:

I appreciate it.

Craig:

They did it with, um, an Alice Cooper one a couple years ago where you don't see

Craig:

2023 Andrew Ridgley talking about wham, you hear 2023 , Andrew Ridley's voice.

Craig:

But you never see him on camera.

Craig:

They just use all archival footage.

Craig:

So anytime that you hear Andrew Ridgeley in 2023 talking, you're not seeing him.

Craig:

And I think the cool thing about that, for me, at least from a,

Craig:

dissecting a filmmaking style is you're not equating, the older person

Craig:

you're seeing on screen with this young person that's doing things.

Craig:

So it kind of makes it seem like it's more

Katie:

mm-hmm.

Craig:

Which I kind of appreciate.

Craig:

It's an interesting approach and I'm sure like, you know, when there's

Craig:

ego involved, I'm sure Andrew Ridgeley wanted to be seen on camera.

Katie:

Well, I don't know, I, to your point about you don't wanna remember

Katie:

like whatever he looks like now.

Katie:

So if I, he probably looked really great in the eighties, and so if

Katie:

I were him, I kind want people to remember me looking that way.

Craig:

Well, that's another funny thing too, because like, um, I don't know if you

Craig:

remember uh, probably 10 years ago at this point, which is just funny how like time

Craig:

just clicks by faster and faster.

Craig:

They reissued all of the Phil Collins albums.

Craig:

They remastered 'em and put bonus tracks, but Phil Collins reshot all of

Craig:

the covers with like his older face.

Craig:

So like no Jack, yeah, no jacket required.

Craig:

Like, which is just like a really tight shot on him.

Craig:

It's like, you know, 65 year old Phil Collins, which was interesting

Craig:

cuz I'm like, he didn't change any of the music uh, but he was like,

Craig:

yeah, this is what I look like now and I don't want people to see it.

Craig:

So it's kind of, interesting how different people or different

Craig:

celebrities deal with it.

Craig:

I mean, another one that was like famously that really sort of, um,

Craig:

detailed growing old was Johnny Cash and those American recordings

Craig:

he did towards the end of his life.

Craig:

And even Bob Dylan has gone down that road too.

Craig:

Really interesting and I'm so glad I'm at a point in my life where like

Craig:

I have a job and I don't depend on my creative side to put food on our table.

Craig:

Um, But like you see bands going on

Katie:

Oh, so many.

Craig:

you know, that were that were

Craig:

popular in the sixties and seventies and these are artists

Craig:

that are in their seventies,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

seventies, sometimes in their eighties.

Craig:

And like the tour poster will have like them at 22.

Craig:

And

Katie:

what sells

Craig:

you're selling

Craig:

like Yeah, exactly.

Craig:

And it like, sometimes it really bums me out cuz like I'm a big Brian

Craig:

Wilson and the Beach Boys fan and I.

Craig:

I went and saw Brian Wilson a couple years ago, like probably a year

Craig:

before the pandemic and like the poster, it was like 1968, Brian.

Craig:

And I'm like, yeah, you know, it's cool to see that, but I'm like, I'm going

Craig:

to see the 78 year old version of that,

Katie:

some can pull it off though.

Katie:

I feel like very few though, the Rolling Stones, I feel like they're one that still

Katie:

kind of has it, despite being really old,

Craig:

that, that same year, , that I saw Brian Wilson, um, maybe two months

Craig:

earlier, we saw the Rolling Stones, which was like, we drove to Arizona for that

Craig:

because, uh, we didn't have the stadium here yet, and that was like the closest

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

Yep.

Craig:

we could get tickets

Craig:

for Ultimate Bucket list item for me.

Craig:

Like, I was like, I have to see the Rolling Stones before they

Craig:

aren't the Rolling Stones anymore.

Craig:

And it it was like the third to last show that Charlie

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

away.

Craig:

I remember sitting like in that stadium and the smile did not

Craig:

leave my face the entire time

Katie:

I love that

Katie:

my sister and I

Craig:

But it's just,

Katie:

we just had the worst, well cause we grew up, our dad

Katie:

is, he's like a huge Stones fan.

Katie:

So we grew up with it and then they came to Denver and we got, we had,

Katie:

there was a ticket fiasco and we ended up with the worst seats in the stadium.

Katie:

It, so I guess I would recommend uh, splurging.

Katie:

I mean we did splurge, like the tickets were super expensive,

Katie:

but I'm not a big stadium

Katie:

fan.

Craig:

Stadiums are not are not great.

Craig:

Was it that last tour, like the 2018

Katie:

Charlie was still with us.

Katie:

Um, And they're, I feel like they're touring again.

Katie:

And then that same sister, cuz Aerosmith's coming and she's like,

Katie:

do you wanna go to Aerosmith?

Katie:

I'm like, no.

Katie:

I just kind of don't.

Katie:

I mean, I love Aerosmith and I did see them, thankfully

Katie:

I did see them in concert.

Katie:

But even then, that was probably in like 99,

Katie:

and so they weren't the Aerosmith that I knew even then,

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

I mean, but that was probably the best time to see that band in

Craig:

terms of like them at the peak of their, uh, performance ability.

Craig:

Because like at that point, I think that like all

Katie:

clean

Craig:

and sober at that point.

Craig:

They had been on the road

Craig:

for like years at that point.

Craig:

So they were as sharp as you could be.

Craig:

So that's, you probably saw them like

Katie:

true.

Craig:

the best time to see them.

Craig:

They did a residency

Craig:

here.

Craig:

Um,

Katie:

that's right.

Craig:

That end ended up getting canceled because Steven Tyler

Craig:

went into rehab and now they're doing like their farewell tour.

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

So I don't know if they're ever gonna do that residency again, but there's

Craig:

a, a really small, intimate theater here.

Craig:

I think it's Dolby branded or whatever.

Craig:

And that's like the one cool thing about like, residencies here in Las Vegas.

Craig:

You can see these artists in like really sort of like, you know, 2,500 seat,

Craig:

environments, uh, as opposed to 40,000 seat stadium that's got shitty acoustics.

Katie:

We could probably talk all day about old timer concerts.

Katie:

But before we get into the movie, there's just a few bits of news

Katie:

and events from January of 1986.

Katie:

Only in 1986 was the first M L K Day celebrated as a federal

Katie:

holiday.

Katie:

Like it, I guess I would've thought it was far earlier, but

Katie:

86,

Katie:

and then the inaugural class of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees.

Craig:

yeah,

Katie:

I, again, I

Katie:

thought that was earlier

Katie:

too.

Craig:

No, cuz that was like, um, I believe it's the year,

Craig:

like the Beatles of the Beach

Craig:

Boys.

Katie:

It was Chuck Berry, James Brown.

Katie:

Ray Charles, Sam Cook, Fatz Domino, the Everly Brothers Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee

Katie:

Lewis, Elvis Presley, little Richard, Robert Johnson, Jimmy Rogers, Jimmy Yancy,

Katie:

Alan Free, John Hammond and Sam Phillips.

Katie:

I mean, those are like the

Katie:

originalists, you know, like

Craig:

okay.

Craig:

So then probably 87 was when like

Craig:

the Beach Boys and

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

Probably

Craig:

in and Mike Love made a fool of himself.

Craig:

That's great.

Craig:

I mean, people talk about the Rock and, Roll Hall of Fame and,

Craig:

it is what it is, but , Those induction ceremonies are awesome.

Craig:

I love seeing, bands get together sometimes that haven't played together in,

Craig:

sometimes decades, uh, and just playing.

Craig:

But yeah, no, 86, yeah.

Craig:

That was when somebody was like, Hey, we can make some money off of nostalgia.

Katie:

Oh, that's always the impetus, right?

Katie:

Um, And then on January 28th, the space shuttle Challenger exploded.

Katie:

73 seconds after liftoff from Cape Canaveral with all

Katie:

seven crew members killed.

Katie:

I actually vaguely recall

Katie:

this

Craig:

yeah, I was in school.

Craig:

I remember this vividly.

Craig:

It's funny because we did not get to watch it.

Craig:

The group of kids I was with were not, I guess, Considered gifted enough,

Craig:

uh, or smart enough or, uh, excelled enough to actually get the, TV on

Craig:

the cart wheeled into the classroom.

Craig:

So I remember another class got to watch it and we didn't.

Craig:

So we got to hear like probably secondhand, after it happened

Craig:

from other kids that were like, you know, yeah, it blew up.

Craig:

And I remember, uh, at that time I was getting shots for allergies and

Craig:

I remember sitting in the waiting room, To get my allergy shot that

Craig:

afternoon after school and , just , wall towa coverage about that.

Craig:

Um, Yeah, I remember that, you know, vividly.

Craig:

And the other thing I remember is like how terrible we used to be in

Craig:

terms of , the jokes that like were instantly being told at their expense.

Craig:

And I guess you still get those, but you know, uh, at least now people realize how

Craig:

inappropriate it is . But like, I remember as a 12 year old, probably telling

Craig:

some jokes about those astronauts that like, uh, are just terrible, terrible,

Craig:

you know?

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

Kids are

Katie:

shitty

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

But Yeah, that was such a defining moment, you know, that was one of those moments

Craig:

that it's probably like, you know, people that were alive in the sixties

Craig:

can talk about, when Kennedy got shot.

Katie:

Yep.

Katie:

It was,

Craig:

That's just something that, you know, the nation as a whole sort of.

Craig:

Remembers it was, that's man, that's, if you look back now at like, what

Craig:

led up to it and like, people that were like identified problems,

Katie:

oh.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

There's a, three or four part documentary on Netflix about it.

Craig:

And there was a, a guy at NASA that was like, Hey, we really shouldn't

Craig:

be launching in these conditions, with the cold because like a certain

Craig:

piece will, , expand a certain way.

Craig:

And, they kind of just brushed the guy off.

Craig:

And, hindsight's always 2020, but it must not, not have been fun to be that guy.

Craig:

Like, you know, Seeing it happen, being like, well,

Craig:

I kind of warned

Katie:

you so.

Katie:

Yeah,

Craig:

That also just shows that a lot of times, you know, like things go

Craig:

so far, it's to like the point where it's like the point of no return but

Craig:

we're not here to bum each other out

Katie:

You know what's uh, funny, not funny is a lot of this stuff that comes

Katie:

up in, like, what happened at this time?

Katie:

A lot, A lot of it is kind of sad, sad stuff.

Katie:

So let's move on.

Katie:

We're almost to the movie.

Katie:

But before we do, I wanted to ask you about your, thoughts, fandom

Katie:

or otherwise that you have shared about Kurt Russell are ultimate every

Katie:

man.

Craig:

Kurt Russell is one of those, it's funny because you try and think

Craig:

about like your first exposure to somebody, um, And you know, Kurt

Craig:

Russell was one of those people.

Craig:

He had like that whole child actor career where he was doing the Disney movies.

Craig:

He had that guest starring spot on Gilligan's Island.

Craig:

So it's kind of like, you're always kind of aware of that person.

Craig:

The first thing I probably remember him from is as weird as this sounds

Craig:

like used cars, whatever year that was like, that was probably like

Craig:

maybe 82, 82, 83.

Craig:

Like probably like right around the time of the thing.

Craig:

And we'll talk about it with this movie too, but like, you know, we watched

Craig:

a lot of movies that like my dad

Craig:

wanted to watch,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

. Craig: know,

Katie:

Yeah,

Katie:

that's the way that it was.

Craig:

Yeah, so like odds are like, used cars was probably like

Craig:

my first exposure to Kurt Russell.

Craig:

And then of course, this same year we got big trouble in little China, which

Craig:

for a kid my age, like completely, completely hit like all the notes.

Craig:

I know like Ryan sort of

Craig:

asked like

Katie:

He had

Katie:

never seen it before.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

And he had also asked like who it was made for because it was also rated PG 13.

Craig:

I don't know, you know, I don't remember going to see that movie in

Craig:

theaters, but it was definitely like, I, I think Carpenter in that movie,

Craig:

he was just trying to tap into like what really later became sort of big

Craig:

in like the, I wanna say like the early two thousands when Crouching

Craig:

Tiger came out

Katie:

Oh, Yeah.

Craig:

kill Bill, like that whole like Shaw brothers kind of mentality

Craig:

like, uh, and John Carpenter as always was way ahead of the curve there.

Craig:

Uh, so that, that was a movie that I always responded to Big

Craig:

tr I remember when Big Trouble in Little China came out on dvd.

Craig:

It was on my lunch break from work.

Craig:

At the time I was in a job that like, we would deliver audio visual

Craig:

equipment to hotels and stuff.

Craig:

So like on my lunch break between hotels, like I remember going to

Craig:

Suncoast and overpaying for that D, V D, I was always a fan of Kurt Russell.

Katie:

Okay.

Craig:

so charismatic.

Craig:

And I think it was kind of like that every man aspect of it where

Craig:

there was always a, like a level of sincerity to his performances.

Craig:

You could relate to him.

Craig:

He looked like possibly a guy that would come over um, that

Craig:

worked with your dad or whatever.

Craig:

Whereas Schwartzenegger and Stallone, like those guys always seemed like they were

Craig:

ripped from the pages of a comic book.

Craig:

Uh, Which is fine.

Craig:

I mean, I devoted a whole podcast to Stallone um, and I love Schwarzenegger.

Craig:

But uh, you know, the kind of thing that, you know, it was kind of like

Craig:

that Bruce Willis effect as well.

Craig:

It was like, it was kind of cool to see a guy that like you could feasibly like

Craig:

know in real life, uh, doing stuff.

Craig:

And the other thing I really really liked about Kurt Russell, and I think

Craig:

we talked about this either in a behind the scenes sort of last of the Action

Craig:

hero, uh, messenger chat, or on one of the various episodes I've done.

Craig:

I always loved the fact that like Kurt Russell never fully

Craig:

pigeonholed himself into.

Craig:

Action movies.

Craig:

And this is, you know, the movie we're gonna talk about is

Craig:

a perfect example of that.

Craig:

But he was able to do a, a perfect, uh, a big trouble in little China,

Craig:

but then he was also able to do like comedy, like Overboard.

Craig:

Um, but then also, like right around the time he did the

Craig:

thing and, escape From New York.

Craig:

He did used Cars, which was another

Craig:

comedy.

Craig:

Um, Or John Carpenter's Elvis, which is like, I think when we talk about Elvis's

Craig:

and people that have portrayed Elvis, I don't think anybody ever discusses

Craig:

what a great Elvis performance,, Kurt

Craig:

Russell gave.

Katie:

It's on my list for this season.

Katie:

He's played Elvis more

Katie:

than once,

Craig:

yeah, he wore Elvis garb in 3000 miles

Craig:

to Graceland.

Katie:

yeah,

Craig:

Who were you doing Elvis with?

Katie:

So the, here's the deal.

Katie:

The ones that I kind of assume nobody will want to do with me,

Katie:

I do

Katie:

solo.

Katie:

But if ever anybody has like any specifics, like non hits,

Katie:

Than, or the lesser known ones.

Katie:

For example, I did Fox and The Hound Solo, and I did Skate Town

Katie:

usa Patrick's first role Solo.

Katie:

Just cause I assume that there's people wouldn't wanna cover them, but

Katie:

could be wrong.

Craig:

If and when you get around to it and you feel like you need, you

Craig:

know, a buddy for Elvis, I'm, I'm,

Katie:

Awesome.

Craig:

John Carpenter's one of my all time favorite filmmakers.

Craig:

And I love TV movies.

Craig:

Um, I think TV movies are kind of a lost art

Craig:

in this day and age.

Katie:

That's a good point.

Katie:

I liked them

Katie:

too.

Craig:

yeah, there's just no need for them

Craig:

anymore.

Craig:

Know, it's funny We came up on the anniversary of it, and I remember like

Craig:

Salem's lot, like, was that Stephen

Craig:

King?

Craig:

Uh, It was like a two night

Craig:

event and I was like, man, if I was like 25 or 30, you know, in the late seventies

Craig:

when that Salem lot two night event came out, like that would've made my week.

Craig:

That would've been something that I was marking off on the calendar,

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

Now it's like everything's delivered, you know, immediately.

Craig:

So there's no, you know, there's no designation either between TVs and

Craig:

movies because like basically anything that you watch that premieres on

Craig:

Netflix, it's, it's made for Netflix, it's made for tv, but the budgets

Craig:

are still, are so elevated that, you

Craig:

know, um, Made for tv, movies still work within that, you know, that realm of

Craig:

like, well we need to, you know, make it.

Craig:

Affordable, you know, it's gotta be profitable.

Craig:

So, uh, we need to be able to sell Campbell soups during the commercials.

Craig:

That's the thing I I've, I've always admired about Kurt Russell, and I think

Craig:

you can't have a career as long as he did um, without doing all those kinds

Craig:

of roles and exposing all those different sides of your, capabilities as an actor.

Craig:

And I've loved seeing the stuff he's done in the last couple years, you know, uh,

Craig:

hateful eight and, uh, the small role he had in, uh, once upon a time in Hollywood,

Craig:

uh, and death proof, which is, uh, Uh, just such a, such a great, great role.

Craig:

I'm a Kurt Russell fan, and, uh, you know what, now that we think

Craig:

about it, escape from New York might have been my first exposure to him.

Craig:

Uh, I had a really cool aunt and uncle who would expose us to stuff

Craig:

that we probably shouldn't have seen.

Craig:

Um, and they had either, you know, a, a copy of Escape from New York that

Craig:

they had, like either taped off TV or I can't imagine they had bought it because

Craig:

VHS was so expensive back then.

Craig:

But yeah, so like when we used to go visit them, uh, or, you know,

Craig:

my mom would need a night off.

Craig:

And so like, they would babysit us.

Craig:

Um, I remember watching Escape from New York and like escape from

Craig:

New York isn't a terrible, like, I mean by today's standards, there's

Craig:

nothing in escape from New York.

Craig:

That's like, um, like today if you rated Escape from New York, it

Craig:

would probably be PG 13, you know?

Craig:

So I don't think they were like we were being exposed to anything terrible.

Craig:

Now that I think about it, escape from New York is probably like the first thing

Craig:

that like I connected all the dots with and I was like, oh, I know that guy.

Craig:

That's another movie.

Craig:

I remember when that came on A D V D, how excited I was to be able to

Craig:

like, watch that in wide screen.

Craig:

And not on like a shitty pan and scan, , vhs.

Craig:

I even like escape from la.

Craig:

I'm not, you know, I'm one of those.

Craig:

But I I love, you know, it's kind of funny.

Craig:

I think on the on the big Trouble Little China episode, you kind of mentioned

Craig:

how like, you know, Kurt Russell was like, John Carpenter's Robert De

Craig:

Niro to

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yep.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

And I love that.

Craig:

I love anytime that like a filmmaker a director and an

Craig:

actor, , just click the way they do and they like working together.

Craig:

I don't know if you have any of those carpenter or like big

Craig:

trouble in Little China on on

Craig:

D V D or not,

Katie:

I do.

Craig:

The commentary Track, I believe is, carpenter and Kurt Russell.

Craig:

Or I might be thinking of the D V D commentary for the thing, but either

Craig:

way there's a 10 minute section where like they just, they hadn't seen

Craig:

each other in enough time that like, they start just going out on tangents

Craig:

and they're talking about , their kid's softball team or something.

Katie:

That's great.

Craig:

yeah, but I love that.

Craig:

I, I mean, I know some people get tired of like, you know, like filmmakers

Craig:

working with the same actor over and over again, but like, you're gonna be spending

Craig:

sometimes months and long hours every day.

Craig:

Like, why not make a movie with somebody that you enjoy spending time

Craig:

with?

Katie:

agreed.

Katie:

I mean, people do it in all kinds of jobs.

Katie:

It happens.

Katie:

Now I When do you recall seeing the best of times?

Katie:

Did you watch it in the theater or

Katie:

do you remember when you first

Katie:

watched it?

Craig:

Yeah, probably whenever it debuted on HBO O so like,

Craig:

you know, I, I don't know

Craig:

how long it

Katie:

couple years later, maybe.

Craig:

But that's one, again, like this is a movie that I wouldn't have been excited

Craig:

about and this was like totally one that I'm sure my dad put on and we watched

Craig:

it cuz there was nothing else to do.

Craig:

But it's funny, I hadn't seen this movie in a really, really, really long time.

Craig:

It's funny what memories I had of it.

Craig:

I remember in my mind, and we're jumping to the end of the movie here,

Craig:

but in my mind, like the doctor death stuff was like, All I remembered

Craig:

was Robin Williams, on the line

Craig:

with Dr.

Craig:

Death.

Katie:

oh my God.

Katie:

Really?

Craig:

well, well, yeah, and watching it back now, I'm like, it's such a small

Craig:

part of this movie, but it's like, I think that's the only thing that really,

Craig:

really super appeal to kids, other than when he dresses up in the Tiger

Craig:

costume and does all that mayhem.

Craig:

It was interesting to watch it again now as an adult.

Craig:

And I watched it two times in, in preparation for this recording.

Craig:

It's free on like Pluto and I think, uh, uh, freebie.

Katie:

Tubi and

Katie:

Roku, like the Roku

Katie:

channel, I think is how I

Craig:

Yeah, so I watched it with commercials, which was fine.

Craig:

It was interesting watching this as an adult now and I know it's not really,

Craig:

you know, thought of that highly or thought of at all, um, because it's.

Craig:

did you call it a

Craig:

comedy at the beginning or did

Katie:

While a

Katie:

dramedy, a sports

Katie:

dramedy.

Katie:

yeah.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

It's, it's really, it's not like a super, super funny

Craig:

movie.

Katie:

not, no.

Craig:

there's a couple of moments

Craig:

where I chuckled.

Craig:

We have that whole sort of bit where like they're trying to watch the game

Craig:

while they're trying to have dinner

Craig:

with their wives.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

That was kind of humorous,

Craig:

there were a couple of moments, but like, I would not call this a

Craig:

a comedy by any stretch, and that's what I kind of appreciated about it.

Craig:

I think it was cool to see Robin Williams like in a role where he

Craig:

doesn't have to be going nuts and, you know, at 90 miles an hour.

Craig:

It was kind of cool to watch a, like a sort of subdued and more relaxed

Craig:

Rob Williams.

Katie:

He was good.

Craig:

yeah, and I think Kurt's great in this too.

Craig:

And the, the other thing Katie, that really blew my mind with this movie

Craig:

is it's been 13 years since they played this high school game, right?

Craig:

So these are characters that are supposed to be, what, 30

Craig:

years old maybe?

Katie:

30,

Katie:

31, something

Craig:

Whereas in my kids' mind I was like, these are guys

Craig:

that are in their mid

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Oh my God.

Katie:

And I feel like I have this conversation with people all the time, just about

Katie:

how people looked older than they were.

Katie:

Like a 30 year old now

Katie:

looks to me like

Katie:

a child

Craig:

Well, yeah.

Craig:

And, and also like, yeah, they, they would Like also when they bring in that

Craig:

whole like offensive line or whatever, like they're all like look really

Craig:

rundown and outta shape.

Craig:

You know?

Craig:

It's so funny, like in this, when I watched this, I'm

Craig:

like, it's only been 13 years.

Craig:

I'm like, If they made the movie today, it would be like 25

Craig:

years since

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

It, I, Craig, I thought the same thing this whole time.

Katie:

I'm like, this is, they're literally like still young people, but at any

Katie:

rate, you know what, um, I actually

Katie:

had never seen this movie

Katie:

before.

Craig:

Okay.

Katie:

It,

Katie:

It was one that we had taped from tv, probably like our vhs,

Katie:

like in our memorex cabinet.

Katie:

I don't even think I was five yet when this movie came out.

Katie:

So, you know, that's never gonna be the movie I choose

Katie:

if it's time to pick a movie.

Katie:

Even though when I was a kid, I didn't really know anything about it.

Katie:

it just seemed boring

Katie:

to me,

Craig:

It, it was an adult, it was a movie for

Craig:

adults.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

So yesterday was the first time I had

Katie:

watched the best

Katie:

of Times.

Craig:

Oh, cool.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

And another thing is, I think movies nowadays are remembered by how much

Craig:

they ran, on h HBO or other TV channels.

Craig:

There are movies that were just in heavy heavy rotation and there are

Craig:

movies that aren't good, that are still finally remembered because of

Craig:

how often they uh, they were on tv.

Craig:

And yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like, uh, the best of times is just a movie that

Craig:

isn't really, uh, Remembered that much.

Craig:

And you know, that's kind of why when you were asking for like Kurt Russell

Craig:

movies to do, I was like, well, you know, as cool as it would be to talk about

Craig:

big trouble in little China or the thing like used cars are the best of times, um,

Craig:

would be really really fun conversations

Craig:

as well.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

No, I like it.

Katie:

I like a more offbeat.

Katie:

Conversation like this is, I'm curious, listeners tell us if uh, if

Katie:

you've seen this movie before and how you'd rank it among the Kurt movies,

Katie:

but let's get into the best of times.

Katie:

So January 31st, 1986 was when this was theatrically released.

Katie:

And it's PG 13.

Katie:

It on I M D B has a

Katie:

six rating.

Craig:

Oh, that's that's

Craig:

actually pretty

Katie:

Pretty good.

Katie:

I thought so too.

Katie:

However, on Rotten Tomatoes it's

Katie:

31%, so Yeah.

Craig:

But I I wonder how many reviews that's even generated by.

Katie:

you'd have to double check, but it's a mixed bag, we shall say.

Katie:

Now Roger

Katie:

Spot Wood, I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name correctly,

Katie:

is the, the

Katie:

director.

Craig:

amazing for

Craig:

me to see.

Craig:

Um, I had no idea that he was the director of this movie.

Craig:

And I also, you know, went back and looked because um, I'm a huge James

Craig:

Bond fan as well, and he directed one of the uh, PI Brosnan movies.

Craig:

Uh,

Craig:

Tamara never

Craig:

dies, so

Craig:

as soon as I saw his name, I was like, oh my God.

Craig:

It's a James Bond director doing like this low key sort of sports

Craig:

comedy, which, really surprised me.

Craig:

The writer surprised me as well, which, uh, in retrospect it

Craig:

shouldn't have.

Katie:

Yeah, so Roger Spot Wood, some of the others in

Katie:

addition to tomorrow never dies.

Katie:

Did Shoot to kill Turner and Hooch?

Katie:

He'd, so he did some fun, fun movies like that And Stop, my Mom Will Shoot

Katie:

. Craig: Yeah.

Katie:

that.

Katie:

And then the TV movie we were just talking about.

Katie:

TV movies.

Katie:

The Matthew Shepard story.

Craig:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

He directed that.

Katie:

And then to your point about the writer, who is Ron Shelton and he is known

Katie:

for sports movies and so after he did this, I think is when he ha he was,

Katie:

made his name for himself enough to do

Katie:

Bull Durham,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Uhhuh.

Katie:

correctly.

Craig:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

In addition to

Craig:

tin

Craig:

Cup,

Katie:

men can't.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Tin Cup White Men Can't Jump.

Katie:

Which God, that was such a great movie.

Katie:

I loved that yep.

Katie:

Tin Cup and Bad Boys

Katie:

too, among many others.

Craig:

So I mean, from a writing perspective, it's kind of

Craig:

cool to watch this movie too and see like how, obviously I.

Craig:

As a writer, he was always sort of using sports as a way to tell his stories,

Craig:

which it's always kind of cool to see the nucleus of that kind of thing.

Craig:

And, it was cool to see a, a name that, uh, that I was familiar with and that 31%,

Craig:

uh, you know, I mean, I I don't think I'm gonna watch this movie again anytime soon.

Craig:

But obviously I was able to watch it twice in the period of about two weeks.

Craig:

And it's an enjoyable enough movie.

Craig:

I mean, it's not overtly long, it's like, what, an hour and 45 minutes or something.

Katie:

Yep.

Craig:

Again, you've got Rob Williams and , Kurt Russell, and you've got

Craig:

a great supporting cast, so it's, it's not a hard movie to watch.

Craig:

And I've always talked about that.

Craig:

People talk about like, oh, it's the worst movie I've ever

Craig:

seen when it comes to movies.

Craig:

And I'm like, well, The only way a movie can be really bad, in

Craig:

my opinion, is if it's boring.

Katie:

Mm.

Craig:

and I mean, if it's not boring, you can't really say

Craig:

it's the worst of anything.

Craig:

But like a a movie's job at the end of the day is , for the most part to entertain.

Craig:

And if a movie keeps your attention and entertains it, it

Craig:

did what it, what it did.

Craig:

Now you might have a different opinion, in terms of like how entertaining this

Craig:

movie or how hard to watch it was.

Craig:

But, this isn't a movie for me where like I was constantly checking my watch to

Craig:

see how you know, how much time was left.

Katie:

Agreed.

Katie:

I think there are some really nice things about it.

Katie:

There's, I like to your point about the casting, a lot of familiar faces.

Katie:

Um, And that's the thing that I notice a lot when I'm rewatching these older

Katie:

movies is now I'm like, oh, that's the person in blah, blah, blah, you

Katie:

know, from two years ago or something.

Katie:

It's not exceptional, but it, it's fine.

Katie:

I don't know.

Katie:

It unfortunately did not make money.

Katie:

Its budget was 12 million and it only grossed 7.8 worldwide, so

Katie:

that's

Katie:

a little rough.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Well, you know what's funny, like I I, the worldwide aspect of it, I can

Craig:

totally understand because football is not something that I think outside of

Craig:

the United States people even care about.

Craig:

So having a, a movie that's sort of built around American football, I can see like

Craig:

an audience in, in, uh, Italy, not caring

Katie:

mm-hmm.

Craig:

But yeah.

Craig:

The other thing about this, and this isn't really tied to the, to

Craig:

the box office or anything, this is just where my mind's going right now

Craig:

is it's always cool for me, Katie, to watch movies that take place.

Craig:

In a a time period where our nostalgia kicks in and we're like, you know,

Craig:

people think of the eighties and they think of the eighties sort of cafe

Craig:

from back to the future too, , or really really 80 eighties movies.

Craig:

Whereas this is a movie from 86 where like if you told me it was 1978, I would

Craig:

probably believe you

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

That's the coolest thing about watching movies like

Craig:

this for me, is it, helps me.

Craig:

Ground myself in, you know, remembering that, the eighties

Craig:

weren't, weren't all like, you know, boy George and Ghostbusters.

Craig:

There was just regular, you know, small time or small town, living going on

Craig:

and, um, everything wasn't like bright, you know, neon colors or Miami Vice,

Katie:

Oh yeah.

Craig:

of colors and things.

Craig:

So that was the other cool thing is like, you know, this is a movie from 86,

Craig:

whereas like you put it on and you're like, well, it's not overtly 1986, but

Craig:

this is probably more in tune with what

Craig:

life was like for adults

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

1986.

Craig:

Also, I know, I know we mentioned the cast a little bit.

Craig:

It was cool seeing, Kurt Cameron, which you talked about growing pains was, uh,

Craig:

around this time as well.

Craig:

So

Katie:

It,

Katie:

premiered this the same

Katie:

year,

Craig:

Yeah,

Craig:

cuz that was one thing I was like, wow, Kurt Cameron looks

Craig:

really, really young here.

Katie:

he does, he plays so he plays Kurt Russell's son, Reno Hightower is

Katie:

Kurt Russell's character's name, and Kirk

Katie:

Cameron plays

Katie:

his son.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

And then do you know who played the daughter?

Katie:

It was

Katie:

um, oh, yes, yes, yes,

Craig:

And you know what I learned, like literally I, I learned like

Craig:

this week that Robin Lively and Blake Lively are half sisters.

Katie:

Are they?

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

They have the same dad.

Katie:

You know, So that happened in the best of times twice then

Katie:

because, let's see, who is it?

Katie:

Holly Palance plays Ellie Dundee who is Robin Williams characters

Katie:

who, his name is Jack Dundee.

Katie:

She plays his wife in the movie and she, at the time was actually married

Katie:

to the

Katie:

director

Craig:

Oh wow,

Katie:

and she is Jack Palin's

Katie:

daughter.

Katie:

Jack Palance.

Katie:

Who?

Katie:

For those listeners.

Katie:

He was one of the bad guys.

Katie:

Um, He, well he's done a lot of things, but uh, we talked

Katie:

about him in our tango and

Katie:

Cash episode.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Wow.

Craig:

I had no idea.

Craig:

I I never made the connection with that last name that she was,

Craig:

um, cuz she was in quite a few

Craig:

movies.

Katie:

She was,

Craig:

yeah.

Katie:

She was the nanny in the omen.

Craig:

Okay.

Katie:

And she looks very familiar, but, the face that I

Katie:

found more familiar

Katie:

was Pamela

Craig:

Oh

Craig:

yeah.

Katie:

plays Gigi

Katie:

who's Kurt Russell's wife.

Katie:

And she's very familiar actress.

Katie:

She was in the right stuff, proof of Life.

Katie:

And then a couple Arnold movies, junior and Kindergarten Cop, and

Katie:

I noticed her most from playing Leslie No's Mom in Parks and

Katie:

Rec.

Katie:

Did you watch

Katie:

that show?

Craig:

Yeah, actually, parks and Rec is a show I watched

Craig:

kind of after it had its run.

Craig:

When Peacock first hit, I started watching that show on Peacock.

Craig:

So, uh, yeah, I, that's my kind of comedy.

Craig:

But yeah, Pamela Reed.

Craig:

Yeah, I I really remember her from, from Kindergarten Cop.

Craig:

She had the, like the goofy husband in that movie.

Craig:

I mean, they're Just a, a rock solid cast here.

Craig:

You know, just a lot of journeymen, uh, actors.

Craig:

I think some of the funniest scenes are probably between, Reno, Kurt,

Craig:

and Hi and his wife, especially the one where, like the main scene with

Craig:

Kurt, uh, Kurt Cameron, where he comes out when Kurt comes to the house and

Craig:

he's talking about the mom moving out and he says, oh, she'll be back.

Craig:

And then he's supposed to help his mom take a box out and Kurt jumps in and

Craig:

takes it out and she starts talking a little bit of trash about him.

Craig:

I think some of the probably funnier moments of the film

Craig:

are between, the two of them.

Katie:

Yeah, I agree.

Katie:

She is constantly wanting to leave him, so they live in uh, really quickly,

Katie:

for those of you who haven't seen this in a while,, just as a quick plot

Katie:

summary we have Jack Dundee is a meek banker living in Taft, California.

Katie:

He constantly thinks about the 1972 high school football game between

Katie:

Taft and Powerhouse Bakersfield.

Katie:

Dundee dropped a perfectly pass from quarterback and friend Reno

Katie:

Hightower ending in a scoreless tie.

Katie:

He wants to replay the game and redeem himself, but has trouble convincing

Katie:

Reno and the town to replay the game.

Katie:

So Jack Resorts to desperate measures to make the game a reality.

Katie:

And.

Katie:

So in Taft is this little town and they have to convince the whole town

Katie:

and it, I don't know about you, but I sort of, the way they portrayed Taft

Katie:

or the way that were introduced to this town, I assumed it was in Texas.

Katie:

It had a more Texas feel than

Craig:

yeah, be because they talk about like the oil, like I guess how

Craig:

it was a oil, but like a boom town.

Katie:

Yeah,

Craig:

Um, I really liked the the opening minutes of this movie where

Craig:

you sort of got Robin Williams giving a voiceover of like the town and,

Craig:

and why it's, The way it is and how it ties into the football game that

Craig:

he is responsible for them losing.

Craig:

I really thought that was cool.

Craig:

And, it was all shot like in that town, which I

Craig:

thought was kind of neat too.

Craig:

I know they shot the,

Craig:

I know they shot the

Craig:

football game in a different

Craig:

high schools,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

You know, uh,, Football field , but it was kind of cool.

Craig:

I, because you know, that's a, again, anytime you, watch a movie from

Craig:

California, normally you get like LA or San Francisco, but you don't get

Craig:

like Taft, which is, I guess it's in proximity to Bakersfield because they

Craig:

play Bakersfield, but kind of like, you know, these non-glamorous California

Craig:

Towns, which

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

It's just, it's, well, where I was going with that, to your point about it, so

Katie:

they portray it as sort of a town you'd want to leave when you're grow up.

Katie:

And so Reno's wife has been wanting to move to la.

Katie:

She wants to be someone, and so she's constantly threatening or leaving

Katie:

him, and he kind of knows the drill.

Katie:

I like the names.

Katie:

I did note we have Jack Dundee and Reno Hightower.

Katie:

Those are very Stallone esque names, don't

Katie:

you think?

Craig:

Oh Yeah.

Craig:

And it's funny too because like, we've got , around that time Police

Craig:

Academy was, was popular and one of the characters was named, uh,

Craig:

Hightower and then isn't Jack Dundee?

Craig:

That wasn't that like Crocodile Dundee's name.

Katie:

Mick Dundee.

Craig:

Oh, big Dundee.

Craig:

Okay.

Katie:

Mick Dundee.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Oh, I love that.

Craig:

But those are definitely, they look like they could be names that Stallone

Craig:

had in his notebook of names that I need

Craig:

to use eventually.

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

I thought that's totally what I thought.

Katie:

Now, I guess I thought I wasn't expecting this for some

Katie:

reason, just before I watched.

Katie:

I don't know what I thought it was gonna be, but I immediately

Katie:

learned that these, both of these guys are quote unquote losers.

Katie:

But in a different way.

Katie:

And I just I, I liked the journey of what their mindset was and kind of how

Katie:

the football game is kind of, well, this is cheesy, but the football game

Katie:

is kind of what brought them both out.

Katie:

So like Reno, he's happy living his, despite the fact that he's crazily

Katie:

in debt, his wife keeps wanting to leave him he's just like happy

Katie:

because in high school he was a big deal and he's happy being sort of,

Katie:

that has been high school character.

Katie:

And we learn later he's actually scared.

Katie:

Like he wants to be remembered that way and not, what if we lose again?

Katie:

And you know, now I'm a real loser.

Katie:

You know, I wasn't expecting that.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

And that's the, like the part of this movie that completely resonated

Craig:

with me watching it as an adult because it hits on, , things that

Craig:

people think about as they get older.

Craig:

And, you think about missed opportunities or, um, how your life would be

Craig:

if something had gone different.

Craig:

So that was like, really the appealing part of this was just seeing like,

Craig:

these people deal with , just the kind of stuff that people in life

Craig:

think about, Rob Williams on the surface, he's a president at a bank.

Craig:

You'd think he'd be happy.

Craig:

But then he's going to see a you know, a, a call girl and he just wants

Craig:

to talk.

Craig:

You know,

Katie:

He

Craig:

not about sex, it's just about making that, being able to sort of, you

Craig:

know, I guess it's therapeutic or in a way, but without seeing a therapist or

Craig:

seeing somebody that's gonna judge you,

Katie:

To that point.

Katie:

I was just gonna point out that he can't talk to his wife about it because

Katie:

his wife's father owns the banks and he is constantly, he won't let Jack

Katie:

forget that he's a loser, so to speak, and that he dropped the ball and he

Katie:

only, I gave you this job and I have to put up with you because of it.

Katie:

And so you can't go talk to your wife about that because it's her dad,

Craig:

But I mean that's really what gives this movie any kind

Craig:

of weight that it that it has.

Craig:

The other cool thing I kind of appreciated as a Stallone fan was, you

Craig:

know, it's not in the spot where we normally get it, but we had the training

Craig:

montage where, um, you know, Everybody

Craig:

gets back into shape and it starts with like Robin wanting them all to do like

Craig:

the 20 minute Jane Fonda style workout.

Katie:

Aerobics.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Before they pivot back to just like traditional training.

Craig:

But it's always great to see like, A montage executed.

Craig:

And here it was interesting because like you get the training montage and then

Craig:

you get another act of the film before they actually go and play the game.

Craig:

But I also thought like the final football game I thought

Craig:

was really, really well done.

Craig:

Um, you know, it's cinematic, you know, we get the, the

Craig:

rain, so like

Craig:

the field becomes incredibly muddy.

Craig:

But then we also get , during halftime we get the reveal that Robin Williams

Craig:

character is the reason that everybody got energized to play the game.

Craig:

And then Kurt basically benches him.

Craig:

And then the, the other thing I really, really thought was cool was

Craig:

the end they get to basically recreate

Craig:

that

Katie:

The same scene.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

has been haunting him now.

Craig:

I wanted to sort of get your take on this because Kurt benches him

Craig:

and he basically takes away, his opportunity to redeem himself.

Craig:

And then towards the last play, , one of the players says,

Craig:

you're not gonna throw to him.

Craig:

And he says, of course I'm not.

Craig:

And then they get the, to the whole doctor death thing where Rob

Craig:

Williams isn't able to get open.

Craig:

And then Kurt basically says, you better catch this, but do you, like, what was

Craig:

your feeling on whether or not like Kurt was gonna make that pass or not?

Craig:

Because he told the other person he wasn't gonna throw to him.

Craig:

So I was curious, like watching it, like what your takeaway was and

Craig:

that for the character's motivation

Craig:

and things

Katie:

Yeah, good question.

Katie:

So there's a scene where, I don't know, they're on like their fourth cha.

Katie:

I don't know football that well, but we've seen Robin.

Katie:

Robin Williams can't get open because of the doctor death guy.

Katie:

And so this is like their last, their last chance of four down

Katie:

whatever, however football works,

Katie:

And so he calls a timeout with five seconds left and they're down.

Katie:

They need, they're down like seven or eight points, so they need this

Katie:

touchdown or they're down like six points or something, but whatever.

Katie:

They need this, they need a touchdown to win the game.

Katie:

So he calls a timeout and Jack and Reno have a discussion, like a true heart to

Katie:

heart, where he's like, I will get open.

Katie:

And I think they have a thing between them because they've been friends for

Katie:

so long and he's like, I need this, and I, I promise you that I'll get open.

Katie:

Just throw the ball to me.

Katie:

So I think in that moment,

Katie:

Kurt,

Craig:

him.

Katie:

he,

Katie:

he's like, okay, that's what we're doing.

Katie:

But then he has to tell the other guys, Like, no, I wanna like, I think

Katie:

he just tells them that he wants to win, so that there's, I don't know.

Katie:

I, for, I don't know if it was so that they're surprised as well, but

Katie:

I think that he was convinced he was gonna throw it Toro Robin Williams

Katie:

the whole time.

Katie:

What

Craig:

Really.

Craig:

Okay.

Craig:

So you didn't think it was like that speech convinced him.

Katie:

No, the speech

Katie:

convinced him like at the

Katie:

timeout.

Craig:

yeah,

Katie:

The speech

Katie:

the,

Katie:

the conversation that the two of them have

Katie:

together is what

Katie:

convinced him,

Craig:

Okay.

Craig:

Yeah,

Katie:

I don't think

Katie:

he

Katie:

was going to,

Craig:

yeah, that, that's my takeaway as well.

Craig:

And I Also love that pass, it's probably the single funniest moment

Craig:

in the movie where I think this is one of the movies where, you know how it's

Craig:

gonna end.

Katie:

of course,

Craig:

because it's that kind of movie, you know, you're not going

Craig:

to, he's not gonna drop the ball and everybody's gonna go home bummed out.

Craig:

So it, it is just, it's just a matter of of how you're gonna get there.

Craig:

And I kind of loved like how he, he didn't immediately catch the ball.

Craig:

He kind of like one hands it and then it like, kind of wraps around his

Craig:

body,

Katie:

He fumbles it a lot.

Craig:

yeah, before he finally, secures it.

Craig:

Yeah, I dug that.

Craig:

I think it's a well shot sequence and, you know, so it didn't surprise

Craig:

me that a, a director like Roger Spot would, was involved with that.

Craig:

This movie sends you home exactly the way it's supposed to send you home.

Craig:

And, again, I don't think anybody expected it to end any other way,

Craig:

but then that's the beauty of making.

Craig:

Making that film anyway is like the journey and how you get there and how

Craig:

it's executed and how it's performed.

Craig:

And in that sense, I think the movie kind of succeeds.

Katie:

I agree.

Katie:

Both men get their redemption.

Katie:

I.

Katie:

By this game and had Robin Williams not, tricked Reno into it, he wouldn't have

Katie:

had his chance to, because there was a moment where Reno has to, you know,

Katie:

there's a fire lit under him and he has to take charge and be the leader that

Katie:

he once was and, and proved himself that he, that he can still be that person.

Katie:

And then Robin Williams' character, Jack gets his redemption because

Katie:

that's what he's wants this whole time.

Katie:

He's like, I can catch that.

Katie:

I don't love the, the message that that sends, but, you know,

Katie:

it is, it's that kind of a movie.

Katie:

And they both make up with their wives.

Katie:

And now finally, Jack gets his due respect from his father-in-law and

Katie:

the father-in-law, we get a nice little reward from him falling in a

Katie:

mud puddle after being such a jerk.

Katie:

So that was nice.

Katie:

What did you think about the Kid Lester storyline that were shown at the

Katie:

beginning and then there's a little bit

Katie:

of a payoff at the end?

Craig:

Yeah, I I think again, that was kind of defining how like a, a town's

Craig:

reputation could be tied to, or a town's morale could be tied to something like a

Craig:

game or, or the the Kid Lester, , story.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

And then obviously that old man, that was him,

Craig:

right?

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

?Yep.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

I, I dug it and I I, I always dig subtlety, I always appreciate when

Craig:

a filmmaker uh, is like, we don't need to slap you in the face with something.

Craig:

, so I always kind of appreciate subtlety and, I think overall that

Craig:

it's a, It's a cool, it was a cool backstory cuz it kind of established

Craig:

like the overall mood of the town.

Craig:

Like I think you even see like there's a scene in the movie there where they're in

Craig:

front of a movie theater and it says it's

Craig:

under renovation.

Katie:

Yep.

Craig:

Uh, And then we flash to it later and it shows that it's gonna

Craig:

have its grand reopening or whatever.

Craig:

So I think that was kind of cool too, cuz it kind of showed that like the town was

Craig:

kind of rejuvenated, on the upswing if you

Craig:

will.

Craig:

Um, Yeah,

Craig:

I

Katie:

was nice.

Katie:

yeah, I wasn't sure.

Katie:

I, I guess my feelings were I, I don't know if they either, Didn't do enough

Katie:

with it or should have let it go.

Katie:

I, I, I wanted to touch more about the kid Lester stuff, cuz I had kind of

Katie:

forgotten about it, to be honest with you, until the very end when he, when he,

Katie:

the old man reveals that he's kid Lester.

Katie:

But I, yeah, to your point about it being subtle, I can see that aspect as

Katie:

well.

Katie:

All,

Craig:

Yeah, it's

Craig:

always tough, you know, because it's like, do you want to hit people over the head

Craig:

with it or do you wanna like, you know,

Craig:

that's why movies ultimately succeed or fail, you know, it's based on

Craig:

how they, how they handle something.

Craig:

But yeah, I think this movie's worth, I mean, especially since you

Craig:

can watch it for free, odds are you have access to one of the streaming

Craig:

platforms that it's streaming free on.

Craig:

I think it's worth Watching if you're ever, , looking for something different

Craig:

to watch, especially if you're like a Rob Williams fan or a Kurt Russell fan.

Craig:

For a lot of people like yourself included, , it was

Craig:

your first exposure to it.

Craig:

So it must have been really cool to be like, oh, I'm about

Craig:

to watch a Kurt Russell movie,

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

you

Craig:

know, that, was made when Kurt was sort of in his prime.

Craig:

So that must have been really cool to be able to be like, yeah, I'm watching

Craig:

a brand new

Craig:

Kurt Russell movie that's,

Katie:

it is.

Katie:

It is.

Craig:

Some odd plus

Craig:

years old.

Katie:

Well, why do you think that it tanked?

Katie:

Like why do you think it didn't do well at the box

Katie:

office?

Craig:

You know, that's really surprising.

Craig:

And, I'd have to go back and watch the trailer for this.

Craig:

I don't think I watched the trailer.

Craig:

But I'd imagine that, , And I think John Belushi kind of suffered from this.

Craig:

I just finished what reading a John Belushi biography and, they

Craig:

talk about like his post blues brothers and animal house failures.

Craig:

And I think it might have been the same thing with this where Robin

Craig:

Williams, everybody kind of knew him as like the crazy Mork from work.

Craig:

, very high energy personality in this movie.

Craig:

It's, it's not that you get a, a more subdued, acting

Craig:

performance at a Robin Williams.

Craig:

So I wish I had watched the trailer.

Craig:

Cause I wonder how they framed this movie.

Craig:

Did they frame it as a wacky comedy?

Craig:

And then people saw it and

Craig:

they were like, well this isn't a wacky comedy.

Craig:

And then word of mouth probably killed it.

Craig:

Either way.

Craig:

Word of mouth probably killed this cuz they were probably like, it's

Craig:

not a flat out Rob Williams comedy.

Craig:

And I I think Kurt Russell was always kind of dependent on like,

Craig:

I don't think Kurt ever made her, broke a movie by him being in it.

Craig:

Which isn't To discount his, his

Craig:

draw

Katie:

Right.

Katie:

I know.

Katie:

I

Craig:

actor, but I mean, like,

Katie:

yeah, I was just trying to think, but that's, that's a good

Katie:

observation.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

So yeah, I think it was probably just a matter of it it wasn't

Craig:

the movie people were expecting.

Craig:

Uh, and you know, word of mouth was probably just like, yeah, this isn't,

Craig:

it's not a a crazy wacky comedy.

Craig:

And I also kind of feel that like sports movies weren't, I think

Craig:

sports movies were about to explode again because like probably the next

Craig:

year we got Major league, which is, was kind of like a crazy comedy.

Craig:

We also had that Goldie Hawn movie

Craig:

Wildcats, which

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

her, like coaching a team of misfits, , and then all the

Craig:

other Ron Shelton stuff like, you know, bull Durham and Tin Cup.

Craig:

So I think this movie might have been just a little before that, , but it

Craig:

also didn't tap into the underdog aspect, the way that, like a movie like

Craig:

Rocky did, where it had a certain pedigree to it and it was

Craig:

very very elevated filmmaking.

Craig:

So I think it was kind of just a, probably just middle of the road enough

Craig:

to not really get anybody excited

Craig:

about it.

Katie:

I fully agree.

Katie:

If you have a few more minutes, there's a few pieces of trivia, I'm curious.

Katie:

So apparently both Robin Williams and Kurt Russell both played high

Katie:

school football before becoming

Katie:

actors and they performed their own stunts in this

Katie:

movie.

Craig:

Oh, sweet.

Craig:

So like all the football stuff we see

Craig:

with Kurt was Kurt.

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

It's not body doubles.

Katie:

Yeah, I didn't, yeah, I didn't know that.

Katie:

And I love hearing that.

Katie:

I very much appreciate that.

Katie:

we already talked about Bull Durham, so this was Shelton's first sports movie, and

Katie:

so maybe he was just cutting

Katie:

his teeth a little bit

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

Well, and thankfully he wasn't discouraged either.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Now we've already talked about how Kirk Cameron plays Reno and Gigi's son.

Katie:

Now, Tracy Gold, I looked for this and I missed it.

Katie:

Tracy Gold plays an unnamed friend

Katie:

of Jack and

Katie:

Holly's daughter

Craig:

okay.

Katie:

Ellie's daughter.

Craig:

I, I, I don't remember seeing her, but I can tell you the

Craig:

exact scene she was in.

Katie:

You can,

Katie:

okay.

Craig:

um, It's when they're having dinner and her friends come over and

Craig:

she like leaves the dinner table and all her friends are at the front door.

Craig:

That's gotta be

Craig:

the scene.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

I missed it,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Well, no, I don't remember seeing Traci Gold, but like in the back of

Craig:

my head I'm like, there was a group

Craig:

of

Craig:

girls

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

It had to have been then,

Craig:

she

Craig:

was one of those girls.

Katie:

Yep.

Katie:

Well, so obviously by the time this movie released Cameron and Gold were playing

Katie:

brother and sister in growing pains.

Katie:

And then same on the same thread, Russell played Dexter Riley in the

Katie:

computer wore tennis shoes, Pro 1969.

Katie:

Well, Cameron, Kirk, Cameron played that same role in 1995

Katie:

when they did a television

Katie:

remake for it.

Craig:

oh wow.

Craig:

That's

Katie:

little connection.

Craig:

a connection.

Craig:

after the fact.

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

and then the real kid, Lester died in 1916, so I didn't even

Katie:

know that was a real person, but apparently it's a real person.

Katie:

And he died in 1916 at the age of 26.

Katie:

So it couldn't have

Katie:

been,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

So they got

Craig:

a little

Craig:

creative there with the timeline.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Oh,

Craig:

I,

Katie:

have any final thoughts

Katie:

before we kind of close.

Craig:

no, again, I'm glad we were able to talk about this movie cuz it

Craig:

gave me an excuse to watch it again, as an adult, which I think it's,

Craig:

you know, kind of an adult movie.

Craig:

I always appreciate talking about movies that haven't been covered to

Craig:

death on podcasts because, there are movies that, you know, I'm not

Craig:

gonna say are are forgotten, but it's kind of cool that this movie will,

Craig:

you know, odds are somebody's gonna watch it at some point and Google it.

Craig:

I do that all the time when I watch a movie, I'm like, okay,

Craig:

what podcast has talked about this?

Craig:

So, who knows, maybe a couple years from now somebody's gonna

Craig:

watch this and they'll be like, oh, let me see if there's a podcast.

Craig:

And they're like, oh, retro May did an episode.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

And again, it's, it's always cool to sort of talk about a movie that hasn't

Craig:

been talked to death, uh, and especially since it was your first time watching it.

Craig:

I'm glad you were able to watch a a movie that you hadn't really,

Craig:

uh, been exposed to before.

Craig:

So I, again, again, it's free.

Craig:

You don't have to spend any money to watch this.

Craig:

So if you're ever like on a Saturday, a rainy Saturday, put it

Craig:

on, um, you know, it's worth things you can do with an hour and 45

Craig:

minutes of your time.

Katie:

That's true.

Katie:

And I like movies you can kind of have on in the background and

Katie:

only like, you don't have to super

Katie:

pay attention.

Katie:

I kind of like that too,

Craig:

Well,

Craig:

you, you know what, you know, it's funny on your big trouble in Little

Craig:

China episode, you talked about plot

Craig:

with, with Ryan.

Katie:

Oh,

Craig:

Uh, No, and I'm

Craig:

the same way.

Craig:

And like I, I mentioned I'm a big James Bond fan and for me, like I've

Craig:

never followed those James Bond plots.

Craig:

Like I don't care.

Craig:

Like ultimately it doesn't really matter what the bad guy's doing.

Craig:

We just know he's bad.

Craig:

We know bond's gonna go to a bunch of different cities

Craig:

finding out why the guy's bad.

Craig:

Uh, And it's funny when we do like our Stallone show

Craig:

episodes and we

Katie:

I love

Katie:

those

Katie:

by the way.

Craig:

But like when we're doing like the plot rundowns, I'm like, for me, I'm like,

Craig:

a lot of times I'm the same way as you.

Craig:

Like the plot is kind of like, I don't get too caught up in it.

Craig:

I just rewatched a bunch of mission impossible possible

Craig:

movies and it's the same thing.

Craig:

I'm like, yeah, there's like shadowy, you know, figures doing shadowy

Craig:

things, but ultimately I wanna watch like Tom Cruise hanging off

Craig:

of a plane.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Take it for what it is I, yeah,

Katie:

exactly.

Craig:

I was gonna say, a lot of times

Craig:

plots can really trip up enjoying

Craig:

a movie

Katie:

That's a good point.

Katie:

Especially, if it's your first time watching like an older movie and then

Katie:

your brain has trouble with it sometimes.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

Yeah.

Katie:

While the best of times may not have been a hit, there was a lot of

Katie:

other awesome songs and TV and toys that made January of 1986 seemed like a bust.

Katie:

But we must now return to present day reality until the next retro made episode.

Katie:

Craig, I cannot thank you enough for joining me today to talk Kurt

Katie:

Russell, Robin Williams, the best of times you're a man of many talents.

Katie:

And tell us where we can find some of the projects that

Katie:

you're

Katie:

working on,

Craig:

oh.

Craig:

Well first of all, thank you for having me.

Craig:

Being a guest host on a podcast is.

Craig:

So awesome because, you get a lot of the benefits with not a lot of

Craig:

the work that comes with podcasting.

Craig:

Like basically you told me to be here at this time, and I was able to sit

Craig:

down, and talk the movie with you.

Craig:

So thank you for that.

Craig:

I I love guesting, uh, in terms of where you can find me and what I'm doing.

Craig:

I do have, a landing page.

Craig:

I'll send you

Craig:

the link.

Katie:

I'll link it in the show

Katie:

notes,

Katie:

guys.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

Um, but that's got all my stuff.

Craig:

Uh, I'm, uh, probably a month away from releasing my third in, uh,

Craig:

album of all instrumental music.

Craig:

And, um, not to get too in the weeds,

Katie:

That's awesome.

Craig:

uh, My previous projects, I've always worked with deadlines.

Craig:

I'm very deadline like for me, like if I don't have a deadline, odds are I'm

Craig:

not gonna do it.

Craig:

Um,

Katie:

the same way.

Craig:

So for this batch of songs, I said to myself, I'm gonna make a collection of

Craig:

music that's got no l like no deadline.

Craig:

So it's gonna challenge me in a couple ways.

Craig:

It's going to challenge me in the fact that eventually

Craig:

I'm gonna have to finish it.

Craig:

But also like I'm not working under like super time constraints.

Craig:

My first one I made in the month of July, like I wrote and

Craig:

produced and executed it all in

Craig:

a 30 day period.

Katie:

Oh wow.

Craig:

Um, which was really cool.

Craig:

It was a cool experiment.

Craig:

It was a cool way to flex muscles I hadn't flexed before.

Craig:

But for this one it was cool that like I just finished a song, earlier this

Craig:

week that I had initially worked on of.

Craig:

Almost two years ago.

Craig:

And there were aspects of it that I hadn't figured out yet.

Craig:

So it's kind of neat to start something, put it in the closet for a while, and

Craig:

then come back to it because it's almost like you're collaborating with yourself,

Craig:

Because it's like relearning, like, why did I do this?

Craig:

Or why did I play this chord or whatever.

Craig:

And then figuring out how to finish it.

Craig:

And like I said, it, it's like, for me it's like solving a puzzle

Craig:

or a math problem or something.

Craig:

So I'm really looking forward to that.

Craig:

I do have a Bandcamp page.

Craig:

I think if you search Craig Cohen or Mr.

Craig:

Craig Cohen, on Google, you'll find most of my, you'll find

Craig:

links to most of my stuff.

Craig:

But on my band camp page, you can listen to everything.

Craig:

You can listen on Spotify if you search Craig Cohen.

Craig:

But yeah, That's oh, thank you.

Craig:

And, and then.

Craig:

Also, uh, the Sly cast feed outside of less of the Action

Craig:

Heroes podcast is still active.

Craig:

There's hours and hours of me analyzing Stallone movies with people.

Craig:

And then also I do have an independent feed for a show I did called Big

Craig:

Screen Book Club, which we talked about movies and movies that were

Craig:

adapted, uh, which is pretty neat.

Craig:

That never really took off the way I thought it was mainly because.

Craig:

It's a lot easier to sit down and watch a 90 minute movie than sit

Craig:

down and read a two or 300 page book.

Katie:

That's true,

Craig:

And then also the most

Craig:

recent, like podcasting stuff I've done outside of the Network was a show

Craig:

I did called Conversations at Jack Robert Slims, which was, a deep dive

Craig:

into Pulp Fiction, where each episode I sat down with a different fan of the

Craig:

movie and we kind of just hash it out.

Craig:

So, uh, but all that's included in that landing

Craig:

page that,

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Good.

Craig:

There's plenty of ways to find me if you're at all interested in listening

Craig:

to me blather or, you know, listen to, the strange music that I create.

Craig:

And either way, I appreciate

Craig:

the exposure.

Katie:

That's

Katie:

Awesome.

Katie:

Aw.

Katie:

I'll have the link to his stuff in the show notes, everyone.

Katie:

And thank you all for listening or watching.

Katie:

Please remember to share the show.

Katie:

And remember, a review and or a rating does go a long way to help

Katie:

other retro junkies find the show.

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