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Episode 7

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Published on:

26th Jul 2023

The Best of Times | S1E7

We travel back to January 1986 to discuss Kurt Russell's charming performance in a team-up with Robin Williams for the sports dramedy, The Best of Times.

I'm joined by Crag Cohen, a fellow Last of the Action Heroes Podcast Network host.

Originally from the east coast, Craig Cohen now lives in Las Vegas, Nevada with his wife and 2 Yorkies, Frida and Frankie Ramone. In his free time he enjoys podcasting, reading and listening to and creating music. You can check out Craig's work: https://www.flowcode.com/page/mrcraigcohen

Please get in touch to tell me what you think - RetromadePodcast@gmail.com

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Transcript
Speaker:

these people came here and I checked.

Speaker:

Watch your kids.

Speaker:

Are there half came to see you drop.

Speaker:

I was going to throw it.

Speaker:

It's to show you up but i want to win I'm calling somebody

Speaker:

else's number I can get open.

Speaker:

You dropped that damn thing i get Jack.

Speaker:

your life is over Just throw me the goddamn ball reno

Katie:

Hello.

Katie:

Hello, I'm Katie and welcome to Retro Made Your Pop Culture Rewind.

Katie:

Are you ready for another trip down memory lane?

Katie:

Today we're gonna travel back to January of 1986 to discuss the sports dramedy

Katie:

the best of times and all of the other happenings, going on at that time.

Katie:

And today I could not be more honored to have Craig Cohen here with me today.

Katie:

He has been podcasting for quite a while and is one of the favorites from the last

Katie:

of the Action Heroes Podcast Network.

Katie:

And despite us both being on that network and both covering Sylvester

Katie:

Slo, happy belated birthday sly.

Katie:

By the way, this is actually the first time that Craig

Katie:

and I are officially meeting.

Katie:

Can you believe it?

Craig:

I know it's, it's crazy.

Craig:

And thank you so much for having me on.

Craig:

I've, , really enjoy, , the concept of your show, and I, I'm looking

Craig:

forward to talking to the, this movie because um, according to my Google

Craig:

uh, searches, I couldn't really find anybody else that has talked about this.

Katie:

That would not surprise

Craig:

But with the title of the movie, it's kind of hard.

Craig:

Anytime you put best in a search engine, you know, it comes up with things.

Craig:

But, um, yeah, I, I always love talking to movies that haven't really

Craig:

gotten a lot of podcast coverage.

Katie:

Yeah, that's a really good point.

Katie:

Well, thank you again for joining me.

Katie:

Do you wanna

Craig:

it's my

Katie:

give us a quick little rundown of what you're working on?

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

A aside from the, guest spots I do on the network, I think the

Craig:

main show you'll hear me on is the sort of monthly or almost monthly

Craig:

show that I do with Ryan and Doug.

Craig:

And we, you know, have been burning through most of Slys lesser

Craig:

fun movies or, quality movies.

Craig:

So that's ma my main podcast outlet right now.

Craig:

And then, , during the pandemic, I was furloughed for about 15 months and

Craig:

it allowed me to have a lot of time to spend with my wife and my dogs.

Craig:

Uh, But it also allowed me to sort of re-explore my love of making music.

Craig:

So, uh, that's really what I spend a lot of my uh, my free time on is,

Craig:

you know, uh, instrumental based, uh, Weird sounding music that,

Craig:

um, I have a lot of fun making,

Katie:

It's impressive.

Craig:

not people have fun listening.

Craig:

Oh, thank you, . It's a really really fun process.

Craig:

Like For me, making music is like solving a a math problem almost.

Craig:

You know, you start with something and then you're like, well,

Craig:

how does, how do I get to where it, it's gonna sound the way it needs to sound.

Craig:

It's been cool.

Craig:

It's been a fun process and, , it's something I really enjoy doing and

Craig:

it's kind of filled, a little void that was, created when I stopped really,

Craig:

really really actively podcasting.

Craig:

And I've said this on pretty much every podcast I guest on.

Craig:

But, as the the creator and host of this show, I'm sure, you

Craig:

know, uh, how much work goes into creating even a 90 minute podcast.

Craig:

I appreciate all the work podcasters do and, uh, having.

Craig:

You know, Produced and edited shows myself, uh, some of those

Craig:

slide cast episodes we did were three close to three hours.

Craig:

And like

Katie:

Oh wow.

Craig:

a, editing a three hour show is just not fun, especially when you're,

Craig:

as, meticulous , as I tended to be when I was editing again, I appreciate

Craig:

all the work podcasters do and, uh, one thing about the, the network, um,

Craig:

is the quality of shows we have and the lineup, that Ryan has assembled.

Craig:

It's really remarkable and, um, I think the, the network is is such a cool thing.

Craig:

And, If one of your favorite podcasters on the network isn't

Craig:

podcasting, somebody else is putting

Craig:

great, great content up there.

Craig:

Uh, And I hate the fact that I just said content, but, uh,

Katie:

I'm the same way.

Katie:

I hate it when people say content creator.

Katie:

It's a big pet peeve,

Katie:

like it's an ick to

Katie:

me

Katie:

somehow,

Katie:

but

Katie:

yeah,

Craig:

As creatives most of us are doing this because we enjoy

Craig:

it and we get something out of it.

Craig:

Um, so the fact that, you know, you could say something that's

Craig:

artistic uh, in nature is content.

Craig:

It just sort of makes it sound like something you feed into

Craig:

the internet meat grinder

Katie:

agreed.

Craig:

But we've been so conditioned to call it content

Craig:

It even slipped into my vernacular

Katie:

Same.

Katie:

Well said.

Katie:

And , listeners, unlike me, Craig is very well spoken, so we'll be treated to

Katie:

that over the course of today's episode.

Katie:

. Let's get into , the 1980s frame of mind by opening the time

Katie:

capsule from January of 1986.

Katie:

Now the 19 85 86 primetime season.

Katie:

The popular shows included, as always, it seems The Cosby Show, family Ties, murder.

Katie:

She wrote, cheers, Dallas and Dynasty, the Golden Girls, and this

Katie:

was actually their premier season and they're always in the top, top

Katie:

rankings for any season they're on.

Katie:

I'm a huge Golden Girls fan, Miami Vice, who's the boss and night court.

Katie:

So that's topping the

Katie:

ratings that

Katie:

year.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

And I I think that was Miami Vice's second season, I think, cuz I I

Craig:

think they started in the fall of 84.

Craig:

Um, Miami Vice is one of my all time favorite

Katie:

Really?

Katie:

Did you like the movie,

Katie:

movies,

Craig:

I did, I

Craig:

I.

Craig:

Yeah, I, I did.

Craig:

Um, And the thing I appreciated about it is, you know, Miami Vice had this

Craig:

element where, um, Don Johnson's character, Sonny, um, was undercover.

Craig:

And I think as the seasons went on, they got a little bit more into the

Craig:

undercover aspect of his, of his job.

Craig:

But that was one thing I think the movie did remarkably well.

Craig:

And you know, Michael Mann is a very detail-oriented guy, and that movie

Craig:

really explored , Undercover from a law enforcement perspective uh, in a way

Craig:

that I think was a lot more detailed than, you know, most of the time we see

Craig:

in movies and you're never gonna get the accurate experience, but the idea of what

Craig:

they did to establish covers and how far back they needed to establish people and

Craig:

what databases they needed to populate, so if searches were run, uh, and then

Craig:

also just really to show the, like the toll that,, undercover work takes on

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

I think maybe like Donny Brasco was another movie that explored that

Craig:

pretty well, but, and then there was just some tremendous, action sequences

Craig:

in Miami Vice and not like spectacular, crazy, you know, outta this world stuff.

Craig:

But there were some like gunfights, uh, one in particular was like in a scrap

Craig:

yard where they had like a 50 cal.

Craig:

And I remember seeing that in theaters and like when they shot

Craig:

that 50 caliber like you felt it.

Craig:

Um, you know, just because, uh, the movie, you know, the mo, at least

Craig:

the movie theater, I saw it in like, they used to play everything.

Craig:

So like,

Craig:

ridiculously loud.

Craig:

A funny story, like probably around the time like Armageddon was out.

Craig:

Um, you know, Me and a buddy went to see like a small movie that, you know, that

Craig:

summer and like in the small movie, when it was quiet, you could hear Armageddon

Craig:

next door because it was so loud.

Katie:

I remember that effect happening as well.

Craig:

And it's funny because Miami Vice is not like a kid show, but it, it's

Craig:

so funny how, you know, people around, my age, you know, probably your age,

Craig:

uh, and probably not even like, I, I'm probably generalizing just because of

Craig:

my experiences, but being exposed to things as a kid that aren't for kids

Craig:

really sort of helped shape, you know, the things that you go on to appreciate.

Katie:

I could not agree more throughout doing these episodes.

Katie:

I've come to learn that . I'm the youngest child as well, so I, I saw a lot of

Katie:

things probably that weren't appropriate for me to see, but I'm glad that I did

Katie:

I think I just have a different frame of reference than younger people

Katie:

these days.

Craig:

It's always funny because, everybody thinks that their experience

Craig:

in childhood was, , markedly different than, you know, the kids today.

Craig:

But kids today, 20, 30 years from now, they're gonna have the same, remember

Craig:

when moments, you know, they're not gonna be framed the same as ours,

Craig:

but, they're still gonna, you know, kind of, you know, looking back and

Craig:

and, nostalgia and, you know, that kind of viewpoint is always gonna exist.

Craig:

And that's one of the Interesting things about getting older.

Craig:

Is just, the things you look back on, the things that made an impact on you.

Craig:

And then also like seeing yourself slowly, you know, get out of touch.

Craig:

Especially when you see TikTok trends and things like that and you're

Craig:

like, wow, I I just don't get it.

Craig:

And that's okay

Craig:

cuz I'm not supposed to.

Craig:

But like, you understand why like, parents went ape shit when like Elvis came out,

Katie:

That's a good point.

Katie:

You're making me feel old though now, Craig , but that's true.

Katie:

While not in the top rankings, some of the notable premieres

Katie:

of this season included 2 27.

Katie:

Do you remember that show with

Katie:

Marla

Katie:

Gibbs

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

That was a,

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

Uh, Jack Hay.

Katie:

j

Craig:

Um, yeah.

Craig:

That was a spinoff of the

Craig:

Jeffersons.

Katie:

I thought it might have been was the Jefferson set.

Katie:

I'm a little confused because 2 27

Katie:

was set in Washington

Katie:

DC

Craig:

Okay.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

No, Jefferson's was, was New York

Craig:

City.

Katie:

maybe they just moved

Katie:

or

Katie:

something.

Craig:

Well It's it's always funny how like they would get creative with spinoffs

Craig:

cuz it's like, oh, we like this character, but we don't meet them in the same

Katie:

That's true.

Craig:

Another interesting spinoff that a lot of people don't know is, family

Craig:

Matters with Urkel was a spinoff of

Craig:

Strangers.

Craig:

Because I think the wife on Family Matters was like the elevator

Craig:

operator at their building.

Katie:

right.

Katie:

You're right.

Katie:

Cuz family matters came later.

Katie:

Yes, that's exactly right.

Katie:

There were

Katie:

a lot of spinoffs at

Katie:

this

Katie:

time,

Craig:

You know what else is funny?

Craig:

The one thing that's great about streaming is there's still a lot of

Craig:

stuff you can't stream, but there's a lot of stuff that even like 10 years ago,

Craig:

like unless you were buying complete seasoned DVDs, it was hard to watch.

Craig:

But, uh, one of the funniest things is watching a show from the

Craig:

eighties and seeing like these, secret pilot episodes for other shows.

Craig:

So it's like, we're gonna try and spin off this show.

Craig:

But this episode, like the main cast won't really be in it.

Craig:

There'll be like other characters that were gonna try and spin off, and then

Craig:

either the show spun off successfully or it was like, They made that episode, it

Craig:

didn't hit the way it was supposed to.

Craig:

And now it's just this like, weird episode that doesn't feature, like in

Craig:

Miami Vice's case, you know, I don't think there is one, but like, that

Craig:

doesn't feature Crockett and Tubbs,

Katie:

you know,

Katie:

It's funny that, that's a really good point, and it's blatant when you see it.

Katie:

There was one in the Golden Girls where they were trying to spin off.

Katie:

It ended up being the Empty Nests spinoff, but the people in the episode that they

Katie:

were trying to spin off the original, like that episode, none of those people

Katie:

except for Charlie Leisure's david

Craig:

recast everybody

Craig:

else.

Craig:

Yeah.

Katie:

character.

Katie:

Charlie was the only one who stayed, and everyone, the set was the same.

Katie:

It was the same house, but the entire cast was different.

Katie:

And it is notoriously the worst Golden Girls episode despite having Rita

Katie:

Moreno

Katie:

in it.

Craig:

It's funny to see like, you know, what ingredients get, you know,

Craig:

Uh, worked on when a, a pilot, uh, or a show's being developed, three's company,

Craig:

which is another, show I have a lot

Craig:

of fondness

Katie:

same.

Craig:

There's like three different pilot episodes where there's like a

Craig:

different Janet, a different Chrissy.

Katie:

really?

Craig:

yeah, it was just like, let's see what, what

Craig:

chemistry people have with Jack.

Craig:

And on the first one they're like, well, obviously this Chrissy isn't

Craig:

working, so we're gonna replace her.

Craig:

I think they're on the, like the first season or the second season, d v d,

Craig:

they included them as bonus features,

Katie:

Oh, cool.

Craig:

I always get a kick outta watching pilot episodes that were redone.

Craig:

Star Trek is another classic one.

Craig:

Star Trek is my, one of my all time favorite shows.

Craig:

The original Precap Kirk pilot episode, uh, is really interesting to watch.

Craig:

And they actually ended up like cannibalizing that episode in a later

Craig:

episode once it went to series where like they used footage from that

Craig:

episode and kind of tied it together.

Craig:

I mean if you watch that original, , star Trek pilot, Spock is like just

Craig:

different enough that you're like, what's going on with Spock and things?

Craig:

It's wild how much thought used to go into television and and I'm not sure a lot goes

Craig:

into television you know, thinking about television anymore, you know, in terms of,

Craig:

I think they've got it figured out enough.

Craig:

They're like, you know, we know what character types we

Craig:

need, and things like that.

Craig:

Whereas, I don't know, it seems like TV in the seventies and eighties it

Craig:

was kind of still like the wild wild

Katie:

It was, there's a lot of formula involved, but I agreed.

Katie:

There was more risks to be taken or something, it seems.

Katie:

So growing Pains also premiered this season, which I loved that show.

Katie:

And that's more formulaic family show.

Katie:

But then we have Small Wonder, the Little Girl Robot, so that's very off the Wall.

Katie:

And then

Katie:

Mr.

Katie:

Belvedere,

Craig:

Oh,

Katie:

I loved that.

Katie:

And what's interesting is that they're just a regular middle

Katie:

class family that somehow.

Katie:

Can afford to have a butler, and that's also a theme.

Katie:

I think that was throughout the eighties and nineties,

Katie:

a

Katie:

little

Katie:

bit.

Craig:

And that was that trend that continued, like three's company

Craig:

was based on a, a British sitcom.

Craig:

And so was, mr.

Craig:

Bevel dear, I believe, yeah.

Craig:

Like that was a, like a, a big thing.

Craig:

And, , even up until the office, you know, the office was a, a

Craig:

UK show that they were like, oh, let's adapt it for us audiences.

Craig:

Mr.

Craig:

Belvedere is a show.

Craig:

I remember us watching Growing Pains With One.

Craig:

I remember us watching.

Craig:

It's weird though because, you know, a lot of times I, I try and like,

Craig:

think about was I wor watching that first run or was it like when it

Craig:

hit syndication and I would watch it like when I got home from school

Katie:

I remember Three's company, but I don't, I was not

Katie:

old enough to have watched it.

Katie:

So a lot of the shows that I have references to, I believe I was watching in

Katie:

syndication, reruns of them in many cases.

Katie:

But Moonlighting also premiered this season.

Katie:

MacGyver uh, I remember very much watching my mom must have liked Moonlighting

Katie:

and my dad must have liked MacGyver.

Katie:

That was classic.

Katie:

And then also ww f primetime wrestling on the u s A network.

Katie:

Were you a wrestling

Katie:

fan?

Craig:

Yeah, it's so funny because, uh, I'm in an age group where we are related

Craig:

to people that watched wrestling when it was still considered a competitive sport.

Craig:

. So like, you know, my like my dad's grandparents, my great-grandparents,

Craig:

they would watch, you know, W W W F matches in the, you know, fifties and

Craig:

sixties and, you know, they didn't, the business hadn't been exposed yet.

Craig:

We definitely grew up, um, around that and sort of the golden age of w

Craig:

w F, you know, where it transitioned from, like Bob Baklan to Hulk

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

it kind of got more theatric and like WrestleMania exploded.

Craig:

Wrestling was a big part of, Of our time growing up.

Craig:

They used to come through, and this is so funny because of how big wrestling

Craig:

is now, but they used to come through the boys club like maybe four times a

Craig:

year, and it was just like, you know, your typical high school gymnasium, so it

Craig:

only, it would be a couple hundred people.

Craig:

And you wouldn't get the super big stars.

Craig:

Like you wouldn't get Macho Man or Hogan, but you'd get like Junkyard Dog or Don

Craig:

Morocco.

Craig:

, And then I also remember before Pay-Per-View, uh,

Craig:

WrestleMania too, I believe.

Craig:

We watched on closed circuit, so you'd go to the boys club, you buy a ticket, and

Craig:

they'd have a probably what by today's standard is like a real shitty screen and

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

And you'd watch, you know, the closed circuit feed with everyone else.

Craig:

And then probably the next year is when they finally figured out

Craig:

how to like do pay-per-view and you were able to just order it

Craig:

through your cable provider at home.

Craig:

But yeah, no wrestling was, a big, big part of my uh, my adolescence.

Katie:

Yeah, that seems to be a common theme.

Katie:

It was even for me.

Katie:

My grandpa watched it a lot.

Craig:

The other funny thing about wrestling is, um, you mentioned

Craig:

primetime wrestling, but, uh, there was on USA Network, they used to

Craig:

do the Cartoon Express, I think

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

I loved it.

Katie:

We talked about it.

Katie:

I talked about

Katie:

it on another

Katie:

previous

Katie:

episode,

Katie:

I think.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

So the Cartoon Express would end and then they'd have like, whatever the

Craig:

10:00 AM or 11:00 AM w w F show was, I, I don't remember what they called it.

Craig:

So I think that's what kind of got kids in, they were like, we're

Craig:

gonna go from cartoons to wrestling.

Craig:

So I think a lot of kids were just, Introduced or, exposed to wrestling

Craig:

through that and, you know, the proximity to cartoons sort of, uh,

Craig:

continued to engage that sort of fantasy element of a, of a kid's mind.

Craig:

That was a great great time to watch wrestling because

Katie:

It

Katie:

was.

Craig:

You still thought it was real, but there was rumblings that it wasn't so,

Craig:

it was kind of like a Santa Claus factor,

Katie:

a good way to

Katie:

put

Katie:

it.

Craig:

where you're like at that

Craig:

point

Craig:

where you're like, I don't, logic says I shouldn't believe, but I still

Craig:

wanna, believe a little bit, I've always leaned towards that, like, you

Craig:

know, in the molder and Scully of the you know, the X-Files personalities.

Craig:

Uh, I always lean way heavier, molder like, I'm like the, I wanna believe

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

I like that.

Katie:

I do.

Katie:

Now continuing on with the time that Butler's were really popular.

Katie:

These were shows that ended in 86 Benson and different strokes.

Katie:

Both Butler Both had butler's or some sort of live-in person

Katie:

that helped around the house.

Katie:

And then night writer.

Katie:

I never watched night writer

Katie:

though,

Katie:

did you?

Craig:

Oh, oh yeah.

Craig:

Night rider

Craig:

was big for, you know that car.

Craig:

I mean, anytime you had a kick ass car, like you got the kids,

Craig:

Duke's a hazard night rider.

Katie:

That totally makes sense.

Katie:

Now I'm not gonna go into a ton of cartoons cuz there's a lot of

Katie:

repeats that we've already covered.

Katie:

And we talked about the Cartoon Express, but one that I had to call out because it

Katie:

premiered this season was Shira Princess of Power, the twin sister to Heman.

Katie:

Did you watch either of them or were you

Katie:

into

Katie:

Heman

Craig:

Yeah, I think we might have been just starting to age out because I

Craig:

remember some of my younger cousins were like super, super he men, and I think

Craig:

we were still like GI Joe Guy, you know, me and my brother were like GI Joe guys.

Craig:

But I remember like going over my my cousin's house and they would have all

Craig:

the Heman stuff, but I don't really remember watching that cartoon too much.

Craig:

It's one of those things where it's so big and so popular that you can't help

Craig:

but like know all the names of all the characters, and all those kinds of things.

Craig:

But yeah, I think I might have been just at the, you know, the tail end.

Craig:

It's like the same thing with like Ninja Turtles as well.

Katie:

Same.

Katie:

I'm the same with that cuz I'm a girl, but it's in my periphery

Katie:

I'm aware of it and it's just, it's become like a pop culture phenomenon.

Katie:

So, but for those of you who really liked Shira or Heman I love Shira.

Katie:

Her name is Adora and his name was Adam.

Katie:

So Adora and Adam and her horse or her flying Unicorn.

Katie:

I didn't recall that.

Katie:

His name was Swift Wind.

Katie:

And that he man's Green Tiger is Battlecat.

Katie:

I think I remember

Katie:

Bat

Katie:

Battlecat

Katie:

more so,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Battlecat, I remember.

Katie:

nice little blast from the past there.

Katie:

So the movie we're covering is January of 1986, so we're

Katie:

just a month after Christmas.

Katie:

This was huge for the toy season that Christmas.

Katie:

Do you have any guesses for what the big toys of that season were?

Craig:

We're too late for Cabbage Patch Kids.

Craig:

Right.

Katie:

Nope.

Katie:

Cabbage Patch Kids is one.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

Okay.

Craig:

Um, God, those were like the Craz behind Cavi Patch Kids was crazy.

Craig:

I don't know.

Craig:

I want to say maybe like pound puppies.

Katie:

I think that was actually like a year or two later

Katie:

that those got really big.

Katie:

But yeah, I loved those.

Katie:

But yeah, cabbage Patch Kids this year, the biggest

Katie:

was Teddy R.

Katie:

Spin.

Craig:

Oh yeah.

Craig:

You put the cassette in and you'd talk Oh, yeah, yeah.

Katie:

I didn't actually have one, but my, my

Katie:

neighbor

Katie:

did.

Craig:

Those same, he-man cousins.

Craig:

They had a teddy

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

, my cousins

Katie:

And then Care Bears of course, huge.

Katie:

Actually still have mine and my Cabbage Patch doll.

Katie:

And then for boys, I mean, it was very gender specific.

Katie:

It seems back in the day,

Katie:

the

Katie:

Transformers

Katie:

and GI

Craig:

yeah.

Katie:

So those were the big toys that year.

Craig:

And I think Hasbro did both GI Joe and and Transformers,

Craig:

they had some big ticket items.

Craig:

Like, I don't remember what a cabbage hatch doll

Craig:

cost.

Katie:

were

Katie:

really

Katie:

expensive.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

But I think it was also a supply and demand thing, but

Craig:

like,

Katie:

So,

Craig:

Uh, I mean, was what Cabbage Patch Doll, $40?

Katie:

I think so.

Katie:

I think at, which would be like, I think I've looked up the equivalent.

Katie:

It would be like a about a hundred bucks now or maybe

Katie:

more, something

Katie:

like

Katie:

that.

Craig:

But like GI Joe and Transformers, like GI Joe had their,

Craig:

aircraft carriers.

Craig:

And that thing had to be like, probably like 60 or $70

Katie:

wow.

Craig:

There was like a point where Transformers kind of like got

Craig:

involved in well, how can we steal some of like,, Voltron's audience?

Craig:

So they

Craig:

had all construction equipment.

Craig:

That would form like one big, you know, Voltron style transformer,

Craig:

um, construct a cons maybe.

Craig:

Uh, They never got really creative with names.

Craig:

Uh, And that I remember that was like another big big ticket.

Craig:

Um, you know, It was like a difference between selling like a $4 action

Craig:

figure and like the $60, you know, aircraft carrier for them to all fight

Craig:

on.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Christmas.

Katie:

Like it was a big, and there you couldn't buy things online, so

Katie:

you had to go physically to the store and it's probably gone.

Katie:

You

Katie:

have to, yeah.

Katie:

It was the whole thing.

Katie:

Thank you

Katie:

Mom and

Katie:

dad.

Craig:

I, still, I, oh, I, well, yeah, I thank you.

Craig:

Indeed.

Craig:

I still feel bad about the amount of money, uh, my parents spent on,

Craig:

like, stuff that just eventually either got sold for pennies on the

Craig:

dollar at a garage sale, or, you know, just eventually got thrown out.

Craig:

As an adult that's things you appreciate.

Craig:

You're like, how, you know

Katie:

so much.

Craig:

Yeah..

Craig:

Like.

Katie:

I very much appreciate

Katie:

the Way that I

Katie:

grew

Katie:

up.

Katie:

Yeah,

Craig:

yeah,

Craig:

I don't know if I'd have it in me to spend, , that kind of money, but,

Katie:

well I waste a lot of money on my dogs, so I don't

Katie:

have the humans, just the dogs.

Katie:

And a lot of people are like, why would you spend that much money on

Katie:

X, Y, or

Katie:

Z?

Craig:

No, no, that's a good point.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Now I usually do like the top five or the top 10 billboards

Katie:

for, from a music perspective.

Katie:

But I went to 15 today because there's some good

Katie:

ones and so many, and two from Rocky four.

Katie:

Now, for those of you listening, so this movie, bastard Times

Katie:

came out in January of 1986.

Katie:

Rocky four was immensely popular, and it came out like over Thanksgiving probably.

Katie:

In 1985, so just a couple months previous.

Katie:

So there's, that was like a huge thing going on at this time.

Katie:

But the number one Top Billboards is, that's what Friends are for

Katie:

by Dionne Warwick, featuring Elton John, Gladys Knight,

Katie:

Stevie Wonder, you remember that

Katie:

song?

Craig:

Oh yeah.

Craig:

Uhhuh.

Katie:

then the number two song, this comes from Rocky four.

Katie:

Do you have a guess Craig

Craig:

God, I'm, uh, showing my lack of extreme sly knowledge.

Katie:

Burning Heart by

Katie:

Survivor?

Katie:

I can literally picture their, like are showing up in Russia at

Katie:

this time when that song comes on.

Katie:

Yeah, that's a good one.

Katie:

And then Whams, I'm Your Man is number three.

Katie:

Stevie Nicks has number four with Talk to me.

Katie:

Say, you say me, Lionel Richie is number five.

Katie:

Bruce Springsteen's, my hometown is number six.

Katie:

And then number seven is when the going gets tough, the tough

Katie:

gets going by Billy Ocean and Paul McCartney with spies like us

Katie:

is number eight.

Katie:

I

Katie:

don't think I,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Those are both, Those are both movie songs, right?

Craig:

Like Spies Like Us

Katie:

I, what was it?

Katie:

A James

Katie:

Bond movie?

Katie:

it

Katie:

kind of sounds like it

Craig:

no, it was like a,

Craig:

It was like a Chevy Chase.

Craig:

it was like a Dan Arod, it was a comedy.

Craig:

And then of course, uh, that Billy Ocean song was in, was that the romancing,

Craig:

the, the, was that the jewel of the Nile?

Katie:

Ooh, which one it is?

Katie:

It's, it is one of those

Katie:

and I should know cuz I

Katie:

covered both of them.

Craig:

I think 80.

Craig:

Yeah, I think 86 would've been Juul of

Craig:

Nile.

Craig:

Right.

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

Mm.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Probably like 84 and 86.

Katie:

So yes, it would've been Juul denial.

Katie:

Yep, you're right.

Craig:

Spies like us.

Craig:

I, I'm, I'm not

Katie:

me neither.

Katie:

I can't picture that one.

Katie:

Number nine is Walk of Life by Dire Straits.

Craig:

Oh, that was a big song.

Katie:

Stevie Wonders.

Katie:

Go Home is number 10.

Katie:

And how will I know is Whitney Houston is number 11.

Katie:

And then uh, conga is number 12 by

Katie:

Gloria es Stefan's.

Craig:

Miami Sound Machine.

Craig:

Yeah.

Katie:

Kyrie by Mr.

Katie:

Mr.

Craig:

Mr.

Katie:

I can't picture that song

Katie:

though,

Craig:

I'd attempt it, but, um, I, I, I couldn't hit the notes as well

Katie:

Oh, no, no.

Craig:

You'd know it if you heard it.

Katie:

And then I hadn't heard of this either.

Katie:

Number 14 is I miss You by Climax, and Climax is spelled K L Y M

Katie:

A X X.

Craig:

Yeah,

Craig:

they were like, uh, kind of like those, like proto, like r and B

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Oh,

Katie:

okay.

Katie:

Got it.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Like kind of like that soft, like not a Rick James r and b, but more

Katie:

Casey and Jojo

Katie:

or something like that,

Katie:

or,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

like kind of Yeah.

Craig:

Smoother, like, yeah, like lessen, like more of like the radio

Katie:

Okay.

Craig:

um, you know, As opposed to like Rick James, which is like, I'm gonna

Craig:

kick down your front door and, you

Katie:

Super freak

Craig:

to take a shower after you listen.

Craig:

Yeah.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Do you have a guess?

Katie:

Number 15 is also from Rocky four.

Katie:

So we've already done Burning Heart by Survivor.

Katie:

Is there another Rocky

Katie:

Four song you remember?

Craig:

Was Harts on fire in part

Katie:

it was,

Katie:

but it didn't top

Katie:

the charts

Katie:

this week.

Craig:

Oh, wow.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

No, I'm gonna need

Katie:

Well we just had the 4th of July.

Katie:

Living in

Katie:

America.

Katie:

James

Katie:

Brown.

Craig:

Oh, right, okay.

Craig:

Wow.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Wow.

Craig:

So that was,

Katie:

So that's the, that's number 15.

Katie:

So those were some fun billboards.

Katie:

What a, like, We're in the mid eighties.

Katie:

Very much so during this time.

Katie:

So

Katie:

lots of fun stuff.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

And you mentioned wham,

Katie:

Oh yeah.

Craig:

um,

Craig:

they just put up That that wham documentary on, um, on Netflix, which

Craig:

we watched, uh, last night, which

Katie:

How was it?

Craig:

It was interesting.

Craig:

It's good, I was never a huge wham fan, especially when

Katie:

I'm more

Katie:

George Michael.

Craig:

it's one of

Craig:

the things As as, as you get older, you start to appreciate at least

Craig:

the musicianship and the talent

Craig:

involved.

Craig:

But like, you know, in 1986, I was not listening to Wham.

Craig:

Um, It was good.

Craig:

the interesting thing about it was they kind of framed it, and I don't

Craig:

know if this is like revisionism or it's just the way it was, but they

Craig:

framed it as like everybody involved knew that Wham was just a vehicle

Craig:

to eventually get George Michael

Katie:

Oh.

Craig:

Obviously George Michael isn't here to, clarify that, but they use

Craig:

a lot of archival interviews with him.

Craig:

And it seems like they always knew that like, you know, They were gonna take

Craig:

off and it was gonna be a springboard to George Michael being a solo artist.

Craig:

And again, that was kind of a, a revelation that was

Craig:

really surprising to me.

Craig:

And it, it's also shocking, Katie, that like how short Whams time was,

Craig:

it was like a two year window where they went from obscurity to like

Craig:

superstar and then they were done.

Craig:

And George Michael went off and did his solo career.

Craig:

It's cool though.

Craig:

It's one of those documentaries and this is kind of a style.

Craig:

I appreciate it.

Craig:

They did it with, um, an Alice Cooper one a couple years ago where you don't see

Craig:

2023 Andrew Ridgley talking about wham, you hear 2023 , Andrew Ridley's voice.

Craig:

But you never see him on camera.

Craig:

They just use all archival footage.

Craig:

So anytime that you hear Andrew Ridgeley in 2023 talking, you're not seeing him.

Craig:

And I think the cool thing about that, for me, at least from a,

Craig:

dissecting a filmmaking style is you're not equating, the older person

Craig:

you're seeing on screen with this young person that's doing things.

Craig:

So it kind of makes it seem like it's more

Katie:

mm-hmm.

Craig:

Which I kind of appreciate.

Craig:

It's an interesting approach and I'm sure like, you know, when there's

Craig:

ego involved, I'm sure Andrew Ridgeley wanted to be seen on camera.

Katie:

Well, I don't know, I, to your point about you don't wanna remember

Katie:

like whatever he looks like now.

Katie:

So if I, he probably looked really great in the eighties, and so if

Katie:

I were him, I kind want people to remember me looking that way.

Craig:

Well, that's another funny thing too, because like, um, I don't know if you

Craig:

remember uh, probably 10 years ago at this point, which is just funny how like time

Craig:

just clicks by faster and faster.

Craig:

They reissued all of the Phil Collins albums.

Craig:

They remastered 'em and put bonus tracks, but Phil Collins reshot all of

Craig:

the covers with like his older face.

Craig:

So like no Jack, yeah, no jacket required.

Craig:

Like, which is just like a really tight shot on him.

Craig:

It's like, you know, 65 year old Phil Collins, which was interesting

Craig:

cuz I'm like, he didn't change any of the music uh, but he was like,

Craig:

yeah, this is what I look like now and I don't want people to see it.

Craig:

So it's kind of, interesting how different people or different

Craig:

celebrities deal with it.

Craig:

I mean, another one that was like famously that really sort of, um,

Craig:

detailed growing old was Johnny Cash and those American recordings

Craig:

he did towards the end of his life.

Craig:

And even Bob Dylan has gone down that road too.

Craig:

Really interesting and I'm so glad I'm at a point in my life where like

Craig:

I have a job and I don't depend on my creative side to put food on our table.

Craig:

Um, But like you see bands going on

Katie:

Oh, so many.

Craig:

you know, that were that were

Craig:

popular in the sixties and seventies and these are artists

Craig:

that are in their seventies,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

seventies, sometimes in their eighties.

Craig:

And like the tour poster will have like them at 22.

Craig:

And

Katie:

what sells

Craig:

you're selling

Craig:

like Yeah, exactly.

Craig:

And it like, sometimes it really bums me out cuz like I'm a big Brian

Craig:

Wilson and the Beach Boys fan and I.

Craig:

I went and saw Brian Wilson a couple years ago, like probably a year

Craig:

before the pandemic and like the poster, it was like 1968, Brian.

Craig:

And I'm like, yeah, you know, it's cool to see that, but I'm like, I'm going

Craig:

to see the 78 year old version of that,

Katie:

some can pull it off though.

Katie:

I feel like very few though, the Rolling Stones, I feel like they're one that still

Katie:

kind of has it, despite being really old,

Craig:

that, that same year, , that I saw Brian Wilson, um, maybe two months

Craig:

earlier, we saw the Rolling Stones, which was like, we drove to Arizona for that

Craig:

because, uh, we didn't have the stadium here yet, and that was like the closest

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

Yep.

Craig:

we could get tickets

Craig:

for Ultimate Bucket list item for me.

Craig:

Like, I was like, I have to see the Rolling Stones before they

Craig:

aren't the Rolling Stones anymore.

Craig:

And it it was like the third to last show that Charlie

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

away.

Craig:

I remember sitting like in that stadium and the smile did not

Craig:

leave my face the entire time

Katie:

I love that

Katie:

my sister and I

Craig:

But it's just,

Katie:

we just had the worst, well cause we grew up, our dad

Katie:

is, he's like a huge Stones fan.

Katie:

So we grew up with it and then they came to Denver and we got, we had,

Katie:

there was a ticket fiasco and we ended up with the worst seats in the stadium.

Katie:

It, so I guess I would recommend uh, splurging.

Katie:

I mean we did splurge, like the tickets were super expensive,

Katie:

but I'm not a big stadium

Katie:

fan.

Craig:

Stadiums are not are not great.

Craig:

Was it that last tour, like the 2018

Katie:

Charlie was still with us.

Katie:

Um, And they're, I feel like they're touring again.

Katie:

And then that same sister, cuz Aerosmith's coming and she's like,

Katie:

do you wanna go to Aerosmith?

Katie:

I'm like, no.

Katie:

I just kind of don't.

Katie:

I mean, I love Aerosmith and I did see them, thankfully

Katie:

I did see them in concert.

Katie:

But even then, that was probably in like 99,

Katie:

and so they weren't the Aerosmith that I knew even then,

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

I mean, but that was probably the best time to see that band in

Craig:

terms of like them at the peak of their, uh, performance ability.

Craig:

Because like at that point, I think that like all

Katie:

clean

Craig:

and sober at that point.

Craig:

They had been on the road

Craig:

for like years at that point.

Craig:

So they were as sharp as you could be.

Craig:

So that's, you probably saw them like

Katie:

true.

Craig:

the best time to see them.

Craig:

They did a residency

Craig:

here.

Craig:

Um,

Katie:

that's right.

Craig:

That end ended up getting canceled because Steven Tyler

Craig:

went into rehab and now they're doing like their farewell tour.

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

So I don't know if they're ever gonna do that residency again, but there's

Craig:

a, a really small, intimate theater here.

Craig:

I think it's Dolby branded or whatever.

Craig:

And that's like the one cool thing about like, residencies here in Las Vegas.

Craig:

You can see these artists in like really sort of like, you know, 2,500 seat,

Craig:

environments, uh, as opposed to 40,000 seat stadium that's got shitty acoustics.

Katie:

We could probably talk all day about old timer concerts.

Katie:

But before we get into the movie, there's just a few bits of news

Katie:

and events from January of 1986.

Katie:

Only in 1986 was the first M L K Day celebrated as a federal

Katie:

holiday.

Katie:

Like it, I guess I would've thought it was far earlier, but

Katie:

86,

Katie:

and then the inaugural class of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees.

Craig:

yeah,

Katie:

I, again, I

Katie:

thought that was earlier

Katie:

too.

Craig:

No, cuz that was like, um, I believe it's the year,

Craig:

like the Beatles of the Beach

Craig:

Boys.

Katie:

It was Chuck Berry, James Brown.

Katie:

Ray Charles, Sam Cook, Fatz Domino, the Everly Brothers Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee

Katie:

Lewis, Elvis Presley, little Richard, Robert Johnson, Jimmy Rogers, Jimmy Yancy,

Katie:

Alan Free, John Hammond and Sam Phillips.

Katie:

I mean, those are like the

Katie:

originalists, you know, like

Craig:

okay.

Craig:

So then probably 87 was when like

Craig:

the Beach Boys and

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

Probably

Craig:

in and Mike Love made a fool of himself.

Craig:

That's great.

Craig:

I mean, people talk about the Rock and, Roll Hall of Fame and,

Craig:

it is what it is, but , Those induction ceremonies are awesome.

Craig:

I love seeing, bands get together sometimes that haven't played together in,

Craig:

sometimes decades, uh, and just playing.

Craig:

But yeah, no, 86, yeah.

Craig:

That was when somebody was like, Hey, we can make some money off of nostalgia.

Katie:

Oh, that's always the impetus, right?

Katie:

Um, And then on January 28th, the space shuttle Challenger exploded.

Katie:

73 seconds after liftoff from Cape Canaveral with all

Katie:

seven crew members killed.

Katie:

I actually vaguely recall

Katie:

this

Craig:

yeah, I was in school.

Craig:

I remember this vividly.

Craig:

It's funny because we did not get to watch it.

Craig:

The group of kids I was with were not, I guess, Considered gifted enough,

Craig:

uh, or smart enough or, uh, excelled enough to actually get the, TV on

Craig:

the cart wheeled into the classroom.

Craig:

So I remember another class got to watch it and we didn't.

Craig:

So we got to hear like probably secondhand, after it happened

Craig:

from other kids that were like, you know, yeah, it blew up.

Craig:

And I remember, uh, at that time I was getting shots for allergies and

Craig:

I remember sitting in the waiting room, To get my allergy shot that

Craig:

afternoon after school and , just , wall towa coverage about that.

Craig:

Um, Yeah, I remember that, you know, vividly.

Craig:

And the other thing I remember is like how terrible we used to be in

Craig:

terms of , the jokes that like were instantly being told at their expense.

Craig:

And I guess you still get those, but you know, uh, at least now people realize how

Craig:

inappropriate it is . But like, I remember as a 12 year old, probably telling

Craig:

some jokes about those astronauts that like, uh, are just terrible, terrible,

Craig:

you know?

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

Kids are

Katie:

shitty

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

But Yeah, that was such a defining moment, you know, that was one of those moments

Craig:

that it's probably like, you know, people that were alive in the sixties

Craig:

can talk about, when Kennedy got shot.

Katie:

Yep.

Katie:

It was,

Craig:

That's just something that, you know, the nation as a whole sort of.

Craig:

Remembers it was, that's man, that's, if you look back now at like, what

Craig:

led up to it and like, people that were like identified problems,

Katie:

oh.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

There's a, three or four part documentary on Netflix about it.

Craig:

And there was a, a guy at NASA that was like, Hey, we really shouldn't

Craig:

be launching in these conditions, with the cold because like a certain

Craig:

piece will, , expand a certain way.

Craig:

And, they kind of just brushed the guy off.

Craig:

And, hindsight's always 2020, but it must not, not have been fun to be that guy.

Craig:

Like, you know, Seeing it happen, being like, well,

Craig:

I kind of warned

Katie:

you so.

Katie:

Yeah,

Craig:

That also just shows that a lot of times, you know, like things go

Craig:

so far, it's to like the point where it's like the point of no return but

Craig:

we're not here to bum each other out

Katie:

You know what's uh, funny, not funny is a lot of this stuff that comes

Katie:

up in, like, what happened at this time?

Katie:

A lot, A lot of it is kind of sad, sad stuff.

Katie:

So let's move on.

Katie:

We're almost to the movie.

Katie:

But before we do, I wanted to ask you about your, thoughts, fandom

Katie:

or otherwise that you have shared about Kurt Russell are ultimate every

Katie:

man.

Craig:

Kurt Russell is one of those, it's funny because you try and think

Craig:

about like your first exposure to somebody, um, And you know, Kurt

Craig:

Russell was one of those people.

Craig:

He had like that whole child actor career where he was doing the Disney movies.

Craig:

He had that guest starring spot on Gilligan's Island.

Craig:

So it's kind of like, you're always kind of aware of that person.

Craig:

The first thing I probably remember him from is as weird as this sounds

Craig:

like used cars, whatever year that was like, that was probably like

Craig:

maybe 82, 82, 83.

Craig:

Like probably like right around the time of the thing.

Craig:

And we'll talk about it with this movie too, but like, you know, we watched

Craig:

a lot of movies that like my dad

Craig:

wanted to watch,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

. Craig: know,

Katie:

Yeah,

Katie:

that's the way that it was.

Craig:

Yeah, so like odds are like, used cars was probably like

Craig:

my first exposure to Kurt Russell.

Craig:

And then of course, this same year we got big trouble in little China, which

Craig:

for a kid my age, like completely, completely hit like all the notes.

Craig:

I know like Ryan sort of

Craig:

asked like

Katie:

He had

Katie:

never seen it before.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

And he had also asked like who it was made for because it was also rated PG 13.

Craig:

I don't know, you know, I don't remember going to see that movie in

Craig:

theaters, but it was definitely like, I, I think Carpenter in that movie,

Craig:

he was just trying to tap into like what really later became sort of big

Craig:

in like the, I wanna say like the early two thousands when Crouching

Craig:

Tiger came out

Katie:

Oh, Yeah.

Craig:

kill Bill, like that whole like Shaw brothers kind of mentality

Craig:

like, uh, and John Carpenter as always was way ahead of the curve there.

Craig:

Uh, so that, that was a movie that I always responded to Big

Craig:

tr I remember when Big Trouble in Little China came out on dvd.

Craig:

It was on my lunch break from work.

Craig:

At the time I was in a job that like, we would deliver audio visual

Craig:

equipment to hotels and stuff.

Craig:

So like on my lunch break between hotels, like I remember going to

Craig:

Suncoast and overpaying for that D, V D, I was always a fan of Kurt Russell.

Katie:

Okay.

Craig:

so charismatic.

Craig:

And I think it was kind of like that every man aspect of it where

Craig:

there was always a, like a level of sincerity to his performances.

Craig:

You could relate to him.

Craig:

He looked like possibly a guy that would come over um, that

Craig:

worked with your dad or whatever.

Craig:

Whereas Schwartzenegger and Stallone, like those guys always seemed like they were

Craig:

ripped from the pages of a comic book.

Craig:

Uh, Which is fine.

Craig:

I mean, I devoted a whole podcast to Stallone um, and I love Schwarzenegger.

Craig:

But uh, you know, the kind of thing that, you know, it was kind of like

Craig:

that Bruce Willis effect as well.

Craig:

It was like, it was kind of cool to see a guy that like you could feasibly like

Craig:

know in real life, uh, doing stuff.

Craig:

And the other thing I really really liked about Kurt Russell, and I think

Craig:

we talked about this either in a behind the scenes sort of last of the Action

Craig:

hero, uh, messenger chat, or on one of the various episodes I've done.

Craig:

I always loved the fact that like Kurt Russell never fully

Craig:

pigeonholed himself into.

Craig:

Action movies.

Craig:

And this is, you know, the movie we're gonna talk about is

Craig:

a perfect example of that.

Craig:

But he was able to do a, a perfect, uh, a big trouble in little China,

Craig:

but then he was also able to do like comedy, like Overboard.

Craig:

Um, but then also, like right around the time he did the

Craig:

thing and, escape From New York.

Craig:

He did used Cars, which was another

Craig:

comedy.

Craig:

Um, Or John Carpenter's Elvis, which is like, I think when we talk about Elvis's

Craig:

and people that have portrayed Elvis, I don't think anybody ever discusses

Craig:

what a great Elvis performance,, Kurt

Craig:

Russell gave.

Katie:

It's on my list for this season.

Katie:

He's played Elvis more

Katie:

than once,

Craig:

yeah, he wore Elvis garb in 3000 miles

Craig:

to Graceland.

Katie:

yeah,

Craig:

Who were you doing Elvis with?

Katie:

So the, here's the deal.

Katie:

The ones that I kind of assume nobody will want to do with me,

Katie:

I do

Katie:

solo.

Katie:

But if ever anybody has like any specifics, like non hits,

Katie:

Than, or the lesser known ones.

Katie:

For example, I did Fox and The Hound Solo, and I did Skate Town

Katie:

usa Patrick's first role Solo.

Katie:

Just cause I assume that there's people wouldn't wanna cover them, but

Katie:

could be wrong.

Craig:

If and when you get around to it and you feel like you need, you

Craig:

know, a buddy for Elvis, I'm, I'm,

Katie:

Awesome.

Craig:

John Carpenter's one of my all time favorite filmmakers.

Craig:

And I love TV movies.

Craig:

Um, I think TV movies are kind of a lost art

Craig:

in this day and age.

Katie:

That's a good point.

Katie:

I liked them

Katie:

too.

Craig:

yeah, there's just no need for them

Craig:

anymore.

Craig:

Know, it's funny We came up on the anniversary of it, and I remember like

Craig:

Salem's lot, like, was that Stephen

Craig:

King?

Craig:

Uh, It was like a two night

Craig:

event and I was like, man, if I was like 25 or 30, you know, in the late seventies

Craig:

when that Salem lot two night event came out, like that would've made my week.

Craig:

That would've been something that I was marking off on the calendar,

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

Now it's like everything's delivered, you know, immediately.

Craig:

So there's no, you know, there's no designation either between TVs and

Craig:

movies because like basically anything that you watch that premieres on

Craig:

Netflix, it's, it's made for Netflix, it's made for tv, but the budgets

Craig:

are still, are so elevated that, you

Craig:

know, um, Made for tv, movies still work within that, you know, that realm of

Craig:

like, well we need to, you know, make it.

Craig:

Affordable, you know, it's gotta be profitable.

Craig:

So, uh, we need to be able to sell Campbell soups during the commercials.

Craig:

That's the thing I I've, I've always admired about Kurt Russell, and I think

Craig:

you can't have a career as long as he did um, without doing all those kinds

Craig:

of roles and exposing all those different sides of your, capabilities as an actor.

Craig:

And I've loved seeing the stuff he's done in the last couple years, you know, uh,

Craig:

hateful eight and, uh, the small role he had in, uh, once upon a time in Hollywood,

Craig:

uh, and death proof, which is, uh, Uh, just such a, such a great, great role.

Craig:

I'm a Kurt Russell fan, and, uh, you know what, now that we think

Craig:

about it, escape from New York might have been my first exposure to him.

Craig:

Uh, I had a really cool aunt and uncle who would expose us to stuff

Craig:

that we probably shouldn't have seen.

Craig:

Um, and they had either, you know, a, a copy of Escape from New York that

Craig:

they had, like either taped off TV or I can't imagine they had bought it because

Craig:

VHS was so expensive back then.

Craig:

But yeah, so like when we used to go visit them, uh, or, you know,

Craig:

my mom would need a night off.

Craig:

And so like, they would babysit us.

Craig:

Um, I remember watching Escape from New York and like escape from

Craig:

New York isn't a terrible, like, I mean by today's standards, there's

Craig:

nothing in escape from New York.

Craig:

That's like, um, like today if you rated Escape from New York, it

Craig:

would probably be PG 13, you know?

Craig:

So I don't think they were like we were being exposed to anything terrible.

Craig:

Now that I think about it, escape from New York is probably like the first thing

Craig:

that like I connected all the dots with and I was like, oh, I know that guy.

Craig:

That's another movie.

Craig:

I remember when that came on A D V D, how excited I was to be able to

Craig:

like, watch that in wide screen.

Craig:

And not on like a shitty pan and scan, , vhs.

Craig:

I even like escape from la.

Craig:

I'm not, you know, I'm one of those.

Craig:

But I I love, you know, it's kind of funny.

Craig:

I think on the on the big Trouble Little China episode, you kind of mentioned

Craig:

how like, you know, Kurt Russell was like, John Carpenter's Robert De

Craig:

Niro to

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yep.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

And I love that.

Craig:

I love anytime that like a filmmaker a director and an

Craig:

actor, , just click the way they do and they like working together.

Craig:

I don't know if you have any of those carpenter or like big

Craig:

trouble in Little China on on

Craig:

D V D or not,

Katie:

I do.

Craig:

The commentary Track, I believe is, carpenter and Kurt Russell.

Craig:

Or I might be thinking of the D V D commentary for the thing, but either

Craig:

way there's a 10 minute section where like they just, they hadn't seen

Craig:

each other in enough time that like, they start just going out on tangents

Craig:

and they're talking about , their kid's softball team or something.

Katie:

That's great.

Craig:

yeah, but I love that.

Craig:

I, I mean, I know some people get tired of like, you know, like filmmakers

Craig:

working with the same actor over and over again, but like, you're gonna be spending

Craig:

sometimes months and long hours every day.

Craig:

Like, why not make a movie with somebody that you enjoy spending time

Craig:

with?

Katie:

agreed.

Katie:

I mean, people do it in all kinds of jobs.

Katie:

It happens.

Katie:

Now I When do you recall seeing the best of times?

Katie:

Did you watch it in the theater or

Katie:

do you remember when you first

Katie:

watched it?

Craig:

Yeah, probably whenever it debuted on HBO O so like,

Craig:

you know, I, I don't know

Craig:

how long it

Katie:

couple years later, maybe.

Craig:

But that's one, again, like this is a movie that I wouldn't have been excited

Craig:

about and this was like totally one that I'm sure my dad put on and we watched

Craig:

it cuz there was nothing else to do.

Craig:

But it's funny, I hadn't seen this movie in a really, really, really long time.

Craig:

It's funny what memories I had of it.

Craig:

I remember in my mind, and we're jumping to the end of the movie here,

Craig:

but in my mind, like the doctor death stuff was like, All I remembered

Craig:

was Robin Williams, on the line

Craig:

with Dr.

Craig:

Death.

Katie:

oh my God.

Katie:

Really?

Craig:

well, well, yeah, and watching it back now, I'm like, it's such a small

Craig:

part of this movie, but it's like, I think that's the only thing that really,

Craig:

really super appeal to kids, other than when he dresses up in the Tiger

Craig:

costume and does all that mayhem.

Craig:

It was interesting to watch it again now as an adult.

Craig:

And I watched it two times in, in preparation for this recording.

Craig:

It's free on like Pluto and I think, uh, uh, freebie.

Katie:

Tubi and

Katie:

Roku, like the Roku

Katie:

channel, I think is how I

Craig:

Yeah, so I watched it with commercials, which was fine.

Craig:

It was interesting watching this as an adult now and I know it's not really,

Craig:

you know, thought of that highly or thought of at all, um, because it's.

Craig:

did you call it a

Craig:

comedy at the beginning or did

Katie:

While a

Katie:

dramedy, a sports

Katie:

dramedy.

Katie:

yeah.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

It's, it's really, it's not like a super, super funny

Craig:

movie.

Katie:

not, no.

Craig:

there's a couple of moments

Craig:

where I chuckled.

Craig:

We have that whole sort of bit where like they're trying to watch the game

Craig:

while they're trying to have dinner

Craig:

with their wives.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

That was kind of humorous,

Craig:

there were a couple of moments, but like, I would not call this a

Craig:

a comedy by any stretch, and that's what I kind of appreciated about it.

Craig:

I think it was cool to see Robin Williams like in a role where he

Craig:

doesn't have to be going nuts and, you know, at 90 miles an hour.

Craig:

It was kind of cool to watch a, like a sort of subdued and more relaxed

Craig:

Rob Williams.

Katie:

He was good.

Craig:

yeah, and I think Kurt's great in this too.

Craig:

And the, the other thing Katie, that really blew my mind with this movie

Craig:

is it's been 13 years since they played this high school game, right?

Craig:

So these are characters that are supposed to be, what, 30

Craig:

years old maybe?

Katie:

30,

Katie:

31, something

Craig:

Whereas in my kids' mind I was like, these are guys

Craig:

that are in their mid

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Oh my God.

Katie:

And I feel like I have this conversation with people all the time, just about

Katie:

how people looked older than they were.

Katie:

Like a 30 year old now

Katie:

looks to me like

Katie:

a child

Craig:

Well, yeah.

Craig:

And, and also like, yeah, they, they would Like also when they bring in that

Craig:

whole like offensive line or whatever, like they're all like look really

Craig:

rundown and outta shape.

Craig:

You know?

Craig:

It's so funny, like in this, when I watched this, I'm

Craig:

like, it's only been 13 years.

Craig:

I'm like, If they made the movie today, it would be like 25

Craig:

years since

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

It, I, Craig, I thought the same thing this whole time.

Katie:

I'm like, this is, they're literally like still young people, but at any

Katie:

rate, you know what, um, I actually

Katie:

had never seen this movie

Katie:

before.

Craig:

Okay.

Katie:

It,

Katie:

It was one that we had taped from tv, probably like our vhs,

Katie:

like in our memorex cabinet.

Katie:

I don't even think I was five yet when this movie came out.

Katie:

So, you know, that's never gonna be the movie I choose

Katie:

if it's time to pick a movie.

Katie:

Even though when I was a kid, I didn't really know anything about it.

Katie:

it just seemed boring

Katie:

to me,

Craig:

It, it was an adult, it was a movie for

Craig:

adults.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

So yesterday was the first time I had

Katie:

watched the best

Katie:

of Times.

Craig:

Oh, cool.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

And another thing is, I think movies nowadays are remembered by how much

Craig:

they ran, on h HBO or other TV channels.

Craig:

There are movies that were just in heavy heavy rotation and there are

Craig:

movies that aren't good, that are still finally remembered because of

Craig:

how often they uh, they were on tv.

Craig:

And yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like, uh, the best of times is just a movie that

Craig:

isn't really, uh, Remembered that much.

Craig:

And you know, that's kind of why when you were asking for like Kurt Russell

Craig:

movies to do, I was like, well, you know, as cool as it would be to talk about

Craig:

big trouble in little China or the thing like used cars are the best of times, um,

Craig:

would be really really fun conversations

Craig:

as well.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

No, I like it.

Katie:

I like a more offbeat.

Katie:

Conversation like this is, I'm curious, listeners tell us if uh, if

Katie:

you've seen this movie before and how you'd rank it among the Kurt movies,

Katie:

but let's get into the best of times.

Katie:

So January 31st, 1986 was when this was theatrically released.

Katie:

And it's PG 13.

Katie:

It on I M D B has a

Katie:

six rating.

Craig:

Oh, that's that's

Craig:

actually pretty

Katie:

Pretty good.

Katie:

I thought so too.

Katie:

However, on Rotten Tomatoes it's

Katie:

31%, so Yeah.

Craig:

But I I wonder how many reviews that's even generated by.

Katie:

you'd have to double check, but it's a mixed bag, we shall say.

Katie:

Now Roger

Katie:

Spot Wood, I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name correctly,

Katie:

is the, the

Katie:

director.

Craig:

amazing for

Craig:

me to see.

Craig:

Um, I had no idea that he was the director of this movie.

Craig:

And I also, you know, went back and looked because um, I'm a huge James

Craig:

Bond fan as well, and he directed one of the uh, PI Brosnan movies.

Craig:

Uh,

Craig:

Tamara never

Craig:

dies, so

Craig:

as soon as I saw his name, I was like, oh my God.

Craig:

It's a James Bond director doing like this low key sort of sports

Craig:

comedy, which, really surprised me.

Craig:

The writer surprised me as well, which, uh, in retrospect it

Craig:

shouldn't have.

Katie:

Yeah, so Roger Spot Wood, some of the others in

Katie:

addition to tomorrow never dies.

Katie:

Did Shoot to kill Turner and Hooch?

Katie:

He'd, so he did some fun, fun movies like that And Stop, my Mom Will Shoot

Katie:

. Craig: Yeah.

Katie:

that.

Katie:

And then the TV movie we were just talking about.

Katie:

TV movies.

Katie:

The Matthew Shepard story.

Craig:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

He directed that.

Katie:

And then to your point about the writer, who is Ron Shelton and he is known

Katie:

for sports movies and so after he did this, I think is when he ha he was,

Katie:

made his name for himself enough to do

Katie:

Bull Durham,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Uhhuh.

Katie:

correctly.

Craig:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

In addition to

Craig:

tin

Craig:

Cup,

Katie:

men can't.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Tin Cup White Men Can't Jump.

Katie:

Which God, that was such a great movie.

Katie:

I loved that yep.

Katie:

Tin Cup and Bad Boys

Katie:

too, among many others.

Craig:

So I mean, from a writing perspective, it's kind of

Craig:

cool to watch this movie too and see like how, obviously I.

Craig:

As a writer, he was always sort of using sports as a way to tell his stories,

Craig:

which it's always kind of cool to see the nucleus of that kind of thing.

Craig:

And, it was cool to see a, a name that, uh, that I was familiar with and that 31%,

Craig:

uh, you know, I mean, I I don't think I'm gonna watch this movie again anytime soon.

Craig:

But obviously I was able to watch it twice in the period of about two weeks.

Craig:

And it's an enjoyable enough movie.

Craig:

I mean, it's not overtly long, it's like, what, an hour and 45 minutes or something.

Katie:

Yep.

Craig:

Again, you've got Rob Williams and , Kurt Russell, and you've got

Craig:

a great supporting cast, so it's, it's not a hard movie to watch.

Craig:

And I've always talked about that.

Craig:

People talk about like, oh, it's the worst movie I've ever

Craig:

seen when it comes to movies.

Craig:

And I'm like, well, The only way a movie can be really bad, in

Craig:

my opinion, is if it's boring.

Katie:

Mm.

Craig:

and I mean, if it's not boring, you can't really say

Craig:

it's the worst of anything.

Craig:

But like a a movie's job at the end of the day is , for the most part to entertain.

Craig:

And if a movie keeps your attention and entertains it, it

Craig:

did what it, what it did.

Craig:

Now you might have a different opinion, in terms of like how entertaining this

Craig:

movie or how hard to watch it was.

Craig:

But, this isn't a movie for me where like I was constantly checking my watch to

Craig:

see how you know, how much time was left.

Katie:

Agreed.

Katie:

I think there are some really nice things about it.

Katie:

There's, I like to your point about the casting, a lot of familiar faces.

Katie:

Um, And that's the thing that I notice a lot when I'm rewatching these older

Katie:

movies is now I'm like, oh, that's the person in blah, blah, blah, you

Katie:

know, from two years ago or something.

Katie:

It's not exceptional, but it, it's fine.

Katie:

I don't know.

Katie:

It unfortunately did not make money.

Katie:

Its budget was 12 million and it only grossed 7.8 worldwide, so

Katie:

that's

Katie:

a little rough.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Well, you know what's funny, like I I, the worldwide aspect of it, I can

Craig:

totally understand because football is not something that I think outside of

Craig:

the United States people even care about.

Craig:

So having a, a movie that's sort of built around American football, I can see like

Craig:

an audience in, in, uh, Italy, not caring

Katie:

mm-hmm.

Craig:

But yeah.

Craig:

The other thing about this, and this isn't really tied to the, to

Craig:

the box office or anything, this is just where my mind's going right now

Craig:

is it's always cool for me, Katie, to watch movies that take place.

Craig:

In a a time period where our nostalgia kicks in and we're like, you know,

Craig:

people think of the eighties and they think of the eighties sort of cafe

Craig:

from back to the future too, , or really really 80 eighties movies.

Craig:

Whereas this is a movie from 86 where like if you told me it was 1978, I would

Craig:

probably believe you

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

That's the coolest thing about watching movies like

Craig:

this for me, is it, helps me.

Craig:

Ground myself in, you know, remembering that, the eighties

Craig:

weren't, weren't all like, you know, boy George and Ghostbusters.

Craig:

There was just regular, you know, small time or small town, living going on

Craig:

and, um, everything wasn't like bright, you know, neon colors or Miami Vice,

Katie:

Oh yeah.

Craig:

of colors and things.

Craig:

So that was the other cool thing is like, you know, this is a movie from 86,

Craig:

whereas like you put it on and you're like, well, it's not overtly 1986, but

Craig:

this is probably more in tune with what

Craig:

life was like for adults

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

1986.

Craig:

Also, I know, I know we mentioned the cast a little bit.

Craig:

It was cool seeing, Kurt Cameron, which you talked about growing pains was, uh,

Craig:

around this time as well.

Craig:

So

Katie:

It,

Katie:

premiered this the same

Katie:

year,

Craig:

Yeah,

Craig:

cuz that was one thing I was like, wow, Kurt Cameron looks

Craig:

really, really young here.

Katie:

he does, he plays so he plays Kurt Russell's son, Reno Hightower is

Katie:

Kurt Russell's character's name, and Kirk

Katie:

Cameron plays

Katie:

his son.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

And then do you know who played the daughter?

Katie:

It was

Katie:

um, oh, yes, yes, yes,

Craig:

And you know what I learned, like literally I, I learned like

Craig:

this week that Robin Lively and Blake Lively are half sisters.

Katie:

Are they?

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

They have the same dad.

Katie:

You know, So that happened in the best of times twice then

Katie:

because, let's see, who is it?

Katie:

Holly Palance plays Ellie Dundee who is Robin Williams characters

Katie:

who, his name is Jack Dundee.

Katie:

She plays his wife in the movie and she, at the time was actually married

Katie:

to the

Katie:

director

Craig:

Oh wow,

Katie:

and she is Jack Palin's

Katie:

daughter.

Katie:

Jack Palance.

Katie:

Who?

Katie:

For those listeners.

Katie:

He was one of the bad guys.

Katie:

Um, He, well he's done a lot of things, but uh, we talked

Katie:

about him in our tango and

Katie:

Cash episode.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Wow.

Craig:

I had no idea.

Craig:

I I never made the connection with that last name that she was,

Craig:

um, cuz she was in quite a few

Craig:

movies.

Katie:

She was,

Craig:

yeah.

Katie:

She was the nanny in the omen.

Craig:

Okay.

Katie:

And she looks very familiar, but, the face that I

Katie:

found more familiar

Katie:

was Pamela

Craig:

Oh

Craig:

yeah.

Katie:

plays Gigi

Katie:

who's Kurt Russell's wife.

Katie:

And she's very familiar actress.

Katie:

She was in the right stuff, proof of Life.

Katie:

And then a couple Arnold movies, junior and Kindergarten Cop, and

Katie:

I noticed her most from playing Leslie No's Mom in Parks and

Katie:

Rec.

Katie:

Did you watch

Katie:

that show?

Craig:

Yeah, actually, parks and Rec is a show I watched

Craig:

kind of after it had its run.

Craig:

When Peacock first hit, I started watching that show on Peacock.

Craig:

So, uh, yeah, I, that's my kind of comedy.

Craig:

But yeah, Pamela Reed.

Craig:

Yeah, I I really remember her from, from Kindergarten Cop.

Craig:

She had the, like the goofy husband in that movie.

Craig:

I mean, they're Just a, a rock solid cast here.

Craig:

You know, just a lot of journeymen, uh, actors.

Craig:

I think some of the funniest scenes are probably between, Reno, Kurt,

Craig:

and Hi and his wife, especially the one where, like the main scene with

Craig:

Kurt, uh, Kurt Cameron, where he comes out when Kurt comes to the house and

Craig:

he's talking about the mom moving out and he says, oh, she'll be back.

Craig:

And then he's supposed to help his mom take a box out and Kurt jumps in and

Craig:

takes it out and she starts talking a little bit of trash about him.

Craig:

I think some of the probably funnier moments of the film

Craig:

are between, the two of them.

Katie:

Yeah, I agree.

Katie:

She is constantly wanting to leave him, so they live in uh, really quickly,

Katie:

for those of you who haven't seen this in a while,, just as a quick plot

Katie:

summary we have Jack Dundee is a meek banker living in Taft, California.

Katie:

He constantly thinks about the 1972 high school football game between

Katie:

Taft and Powerhouse Bakersfield.

Katie:

Dundee dropped a perfectly pass from quarterback and friend Reno

Katie:

Hightower ending in a scoreless tie.

Katie:

He wants to replay the game and redeem himself, but has trouble convincing

Katie:

Reno and the town to replay the game.

Katie:

So Jack Resorts to desperate measures to make the game a reality.

Katie:

And.

Katie:

So in Taft is this little town and they have to convince the whole town

Katie:

and it, I don't know about you, but I sort of, the way they portrayed Taft

Katie:

or the way that were introduced to this town, I assumed it was in Texas.

Katie:

It had a more Texas feel than

Craig:

yeah, be because they talk about like the oil, like I guess how

Craig:

it was a oil, but like a boom town.

Katie:

Yeah,

Craig:

Um, I really liked the the opening minutes of this movie where

Craig:

you sort of got Robin Williams giving a voiceover of like the town and,

Craig:

and why it's, The way it is and how it ties into the football game that

Craig:

he is responsible for them losing.

Craig:

I really thought that was cool.

Craig:

And, it was all shot like in that town, which I

Craig:

thought was kind of neat too.

Craig:

I know they shot the,

Craig:

I know they shot the

Craig:

football game in a different

Craig:

high schools,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

You know, uh,, Football field , but it was kind of cool.

Craig:

I, because you know, that's a, again, anytime you, watch a movie from

Craig:

California, normally you get like LA or San Francisco, but you don't get

Craig:

like Taft, which is, I guess it's in proximity to Bakersfield because they

Craig:

play Bakersfield, but kind of like, you know, these non-glamorous California

Craig:

Towns, which

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

It's just, it's, well, where I was going with that, to your point about it, so

Katie:

they portray it as sort of a town you'd want to leave when you're grow up.

Katie:

And so Reno's wife has been wanting to move to la.

Katie:

She wants to be someone, and so she's constantly threatening or leaving

Katie:

him, and he kind of knows the drill.

Katie:

I like the names.

Katie:

I did note we have Jack Dundee and Reno Hightower.

Katie:

Those are very Stallone esque names, don't

Katie:

you think?

Craig:

Oh Yeah.

Craig:

And it's funny too because like, we've got , around that time Police

Craig:

Academy was, was popular and one of the characters was named, uh,

Craig:

Hightower and then isn't Jack Dundee?

Craig:

That wasn't that like Crocodile Dundee's name.

Katie:

Mick Dundee.

Craig:

Oh, big Dundee.

Craig:

Okay.

Katie:

Mick Dundee.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Oh, I love that.

Craig:

But those are definitely, they look like they could be names that Stallone

Craig:

had in his notebook of names that I need

Craig:

to use eventually.

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

I thought that's totally what I thought.

Katie:

Now, I guess I thought I wasn't expecting this for some

Katie:

reason, just before I watched.

Katie:

I don't know what I thought it was gonna be, but I immediately

Katie:

learned that these, both of these guys are quote unquote losers.

Katie:

But in a different way.

Katie:

And I just I, I liked the journey of what their mindset was and kind of how

Katie:

the football game is kind of, well, this is cheesy, but the football game

Katie:

is kind of what brought them both out.

Katie:

So like Reno, he's happy living his, despite the fact that he's crazily

Katie:

in debt, his wife keeps wanting to leave him he's just like happy

Katie:

because in high school he was a big deal and he's happy being sort of,

Katie:

that has been high school character.

Katie:

And we learn later he's actually scared.

Katie:

Like he wants to be remembered that way and not, what if we lose again?

Katie:

And you know, now I'm a real loser.

Katie:

You know, I wasn't expecting that.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

And that's the, like the part of this movie that completely resonated

Craig:

with me watching it as an adult because it hits on, , things that

Craig:

people think about as they get older.

Craig:

And, you think about missed opportunities or, um, how your life would be

Craig:

if something had gone different.

Craig:

So that was like, really the appealing part of this was just seeing like,

Craig:

these people deal with , just the kind of stuff that people in life

Craig:

think about, Rob Williams on the surface, he's a president at a bank.

Craig:

You'd think he'd be happy.

Craig:

But then he's going to see a you know, a, a call girl and he just wants

Craig:

to talk.

Craig:

You know,

Katie:

He

Craig:

not about sex, it's just about making that, being able to sort of, you

Craig:

know, I guess it's therapeutic or in a way, but without seeing a therapist or

Craig:

seeing somebody that's gonna judge you,

Katie:

To that point.

Katie:

I was just gonna point out that he can't talk to his wife about it because

Katie:

his wife's father owns the banks and he is constantly, he won't let Jack

Katie:

forget that he's a loser, so to speak, and that he dropped the ball and he

Katie:

only, I gave you this job and I have to put up with you because of it.

Katie:

And so you can't go talk to your wife about that because it's her dad,

Craig:

But I mean that's really what gives this movie any kind

Craig:

of weight that it that it has.

Craig:

The other cool thing I kind of appreciated as a Stallone fan was, you

Craig:

know, it's not in the spot where we normally get it, but we had the training

Craig:

montage where, um, you know, Everybody

Craig:

gets back into shape and it starts with like Robin wanting them all to do like

Craig:

the 20 minute Jane Fonda style workout.

Katie:

Aerobics.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Before they pivot back to just like traditional training.

Craig:

But it's always great to see like, A montage executed.

Craig:

And here it was interesting because like you get the training montage and then

Craig:

you get another act of the film before they actually go and play the game.

Craig:

But I also thought like the final football game I thought

Craig:

was really, really well done.

Craig:

Um, you know, it's cinematic, you know, we get the, the

Craig:

rain, so like

Craig:

the field becomes incredibly muddy.

Craig:

But then we also get , during halftime we get the reveal that Robin Williams

Craig:

character is the reason that everybody got energized to play the game.

Craig:

And then Kurt basically benches him.

Craig:

And then the, the other thing I really, really thought was cool was

Craig:

the end they get to basically recreate

Craig:

that

Katie:

The same scene.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

has been haunting him now.

Craig:

I wanted to sort of get your take on this because Kurt benches him

Craig:

and he basically takes away, his opportunity to redeem himself.

Craig:

And then towards the last play, , one of the players says,

Craig:

you're not gonna throw to him.

Craig:

And he says, of course I'm not.

Craig:

And then they get the, to the whole doctor death thing where Rob

Craig:

Williams isn't able to get open.

Craig:

And then Kurt basically says, you better catch this, but do you, like, what was

Craig:

your feeling on whether or not like Kurt was gonna make that pass or not?

Craig:

Because he told the other person he wasn't gonna throw to him.

Craig:

So I was curious, like watching it, like what your takeaway was and

Craig:

that for the character's motivation

Craig:

and things

Katie:

Yeah, good question.

Katie:

So there's a scene where, I don't know, they're on like their fourth cha.

Katie:

I don't know football that well, but we've seen Robin.

Katie:

Robin Williams can't get open because of the doctor death guy.

Katie:

And so this is like their last, their last chance of four down

Katie:

whatever, however football works,

Katie:

And so he calls a timeout with five seconds left and they're down.

Katie:

They need, they're down like seven or eight points, so they need this

Katie:

touchdown or they're down like six points or something, but whatever.

Katie:

They need this, they need a touchdown to win the game.

Katie:

So he calls a timeout and Jack and Reno have a discussion, like a true heart to

Katie:

heart, where he's like, I will get open.

Katie:

And I think they have a thing between them because they've been friends for

Katie:

so long and he's like, I need this, and I, I promise you that I'll get open.

Katie:

Just throw the ball to me.

Katie:

So I think in that moment,

Katie:

Kurt,

Craig:

him.

Katie:

he,

Katie:

he's like, okay, that's what we're doing.

Katie:

But then he has to tell the other guys, Like, no, I wanna like, I think

Katie:

he just tells them that he wants to win, so that there's, I don't know.

Katie:

I, for, I don't know if it was so that they're surprised as well, but

Katie:

I think that he was convinced he was gonna throw it Toro Robin Williams

Katie:

the whole time.

Katie:

What

Craig:

Really.

Craig:

Okay.

Craig:

So you didn't think it was like that speech convinced him.

Katie:

No, the speech

Katie:

convinced him like at the

Katie:

timeout.

Craig:

yeah,

Katie:

The speech

Katie:

the,

Katie:

the conversation that the two of them have

Katie:

together is what

Katie:

convinced him,

Craig:

Okay.

Craig:

Yeah,

Katie:

I don't think

Katie:

he

Katie:

was going to,

Craig:

yeah, that, that's my takeaway as well.

Craig:

And I Also love that pass, it's probably the single funniest moment

Craig:

in the movie where I think this is one of the movies where, you know how it's

Craig:

gonna end.

Katie:

of course,

Craig:

because it's that kind of movie, you know, you're not going

Craig:

to, he's not gonna drop the ball and everybody's gonna go home bummed out.

Craig:

So it, it is just, it's just a matter of of how you're gonna get there.

Craig:

And I kind of loved like how he, he didn't immediately catch the ball.

Craig:

He kind of like one hands it and then it like, kind of wraps around his

Craig:

body,

Katie:

He fumbles it a lot.

Craig:

yeah, before he finally, secures it.

Craig:

Yeah, I dug that.

Craig:

I think it's a well shot sequence and, you know, so it didn't surprise

Craig:

me that a, a director like Roger Spot would, was involved with that.

Craig:

This movie sends you home exactly the way it's supposed to send you home.

Craig:

And, again, I don't think anybody expected it to end any other way,

Craig:

but then that's the beauty of making.

Craig:

Making that film anyway is like the journey and how you get there and how

Craig:

it's executed and how it's performed.

Craig:

And in that sense, I think the movie kind of succeeds.

Katie:

I agree.

Katie:

Both men get their redemption.

Katie:

I.

Katie:

By this game and had Robin Williams not, tricked Reno into it, he wouldn't have

Katie:

had his chance to, because there was a moment where Reno has to, you know,

Katie:

there's a fire lit under him and he has to take charge and be the leader that

Katie:

he once was and, and proved himself that he, that he can still be that person.

Katie:

And then Robin Williams' character, Jack gets his redemption because

Katie:

that's what he's wants this whole time.

Katie:

He's like, I can catch that.

Katie:

I don't love the, the message that that sends, but, you know,

Katie:

it is, it's that kind of a movie.

Katie:

And they both make up with their wives.

Katie:

And now finally, Jack gets his due respect from his father-in-law and

Katie:

the father-in-law, we get a nice little reward from him falling in a

Katie:

mud puddle after being such a jerk.

Katie:

So that was nice.

Katie:

What did you think about the Kid Lester storyline that were shown at the

Katie:

beginning and then there's a little bit

Katie:

of a payoff at the end?

Craig:

Yeah, I I think again, that was kind of defining how like a, a town's

Craig:

reputation could be tied to, or a town's morale could be tied to something like a

Craig:

game or, or the the Kid Lester, , story.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

And then obviously that old man, that was him,

Craig:

right?

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

?Yep.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

I, I dug it and I I, I always dig subtlety, I always appreciate when

Craig:

a filmmaker uh, is like, we don't need to slap you in the face with something.

Craig:

, so I always kind of appreciate subtlety and, I think overall that

Craig:

it's a, It's a cool, it was a cool backstory cuz it kind of established

Craig:

like the overall mood of the town.

Craig:

Like I think you even see like there's a scene in the movie there where they're in

Craig:

front of a movie theater and it says it's

Craig:

under renovation.

Katie:

Yep.

Craig:

Uh, And then we flash to it later and it shows that it's gonna

Craig:

have its grand reopening or whatever.

Craig:

So I think that was kind of cool too, cuz it kind of showed that like the town was

Craig:

kind of rejuvenated, on the upswing if you

Craig:

will.

Craig:

Um, Yeah,

Craig:

I

Katie:

was nice.

Katie:

yeah, I wasn't sure.

Katie:

I, I guess my feelings were I, I don't know if they either, Didn't do enough

Katie:

with it or should have let it go.

Katie:

I, I, I wanted to touch more about the kid Lester stuff, cuz I had kind of

Katie:

forgotten about it, to be honest with you, until the very end when he, when he,

Katie:

the old man reveals that he's kid Lester.

Katie:

But I, yeah, to your point about it being subtle, I can see that aspect as

Katie:

well.

Katie:

All,

Craig:

Yeah, it's

Craig:

always tough, you know, because it's like, do you want to hit people over the head

Craig:

with it or do you wanna like, you know,

Craig:

that's why movies ultimately succeed or fail, you know, it's based on

Craig:

how they, how they handle something.

Craig:

But yeah, I think this movie's worth, I mean, especially since you

Craig:

can watch it for free, odds are you have access to one of the streaming

Craig:

platforms that it's streaming free on.

Craig:

I think it's worth Watching if you're ever, , looking for something different

Craig:

to watch, especially if you're like a Rob Williams fan or a Kurt Russell fan.

Craig:

For a lot of people like yourself included, , it was

Craig:

your first exposure to it.

Craig:

So it must have been really cool to be like, oh, I'm about

Craig:

to watch a Kurt Russell movie,

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

you

Craig:

know, that, was made when Kurt was sort of in his prime.

Craig:

So that must have been really cool to be able to be like, yeah, I'm watching

Craig:

a brand new

Craig:

Kurt Russell movie that's,

Katie:

it is.

Katie:

It is.

Craig:

Some odd plus

Craig:

years old.

Katie:

Well, why do you think that it tanked?

Katie:

Like why do you think it didn't do well at the box

Katie:

office?

Craig:

You know, that's really surprising.

Craig:

And, I'd have to go back and watch the trailer for this.

Craig:

I don't think I watched the trailer.

Craig:

But I'd imagine that, , And I think John Belushi kind of suffered from this.

Craig:

I just finished what reading a John Belushi biography and, they

Craig:

talk about like his post blues brothers and animal house failures.

Craig:

And I think it might have been the same thing with this where Robin

Craig:

Williams, everybody kind of knew him as like the crazy Mork from work.

Craig:

, very high energy personality in this movie.

Craig:

It's, it's not that you get a, a more subdued, acting

Craig:

performance at a Robin Williams.

Craig:

So I wish I had watched the trailer.

Craig:

Cause I wonder how they framed this movie.

Craig:

Did they frame it as a wacky comedy?

Craig:

And then people saw it and

Craig:

they were like, well this isn't a wacky comedy.

Craig:

And then word of mouth probably killed it.

Craig:

Either way.

Craig:

Word of mouth probably killed this cuz they were probably like, it's

Craig:

not a flat out Rob Williams comedy.

Craig:

And I I think Kurt Russell was always kind of dependent on like,

Craig:

I don't think Kurt ever made her, broke a movie by him being in it.

Craig:

Which isn't To discount his, his

Craig:

draw

Katie:

Right.

Katie:

I know.

Katie:

I

Craig:

actor, but I mean, like,

Katie:

yeah, I was just trying to think, but that's, that's a good

Katie:

observation.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

So yeah, I think it was probably just a matter of it it wasn't

Craig:

the movie people were expecting.

Craig:

Uh, and you know, word of mouth was probably just like, yeah, this isn't,

Craig:

it's not a a crazy wacky comedy.

Craig:

And I also kind of feel that like sports movies weren't, I think

Craig:

sports movies were about to explode again because like probably the next

Craig:

year we got Major league, which is, was kind of like a crazy comedy.

Craig:

We also had that Goldie Hawn movie

Craig:

Wildcats, which

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

her, like coaching a team of misfits, , and then all the

Craig:

other Ron Shelton stuff like, you know, bull Durham and Tin Cup.

Craig:

So I think this movie might have been just a little before that, , but it

Craig:

also didn't tap into the underdog aspect, the way that, like a movie like

Craig:

Rocky did, where it had a certain pedigree to it and it was

Craig:

very very elevated filmmaking.

Craig:

So I think it was kind of just a, probably just middle of the road enough

Craig:

to not really get anybody excited

Craig:

about it.

Katie:

I fully agree.

Katie:

If you have a few more minutes, there's a few pieces of trivia, I'm curious.

Katie:

So apparently both Robin Williams and Kurt Russell both played high

Katie:

school football before becoming

Katie:

actors and they performed their own stunts in this

Katie:

movie.

Craig:

Oh, sweet.

Craig:

So like all the football stuff we see

Craig:

with Kurt was Kurt.

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

It's not body doubles.

Katie:

Yeah, I didn't, yeah, I didn't know that.

Katie:

And I love hearing that.

Katie:

I very much appreciate that.

Katie:

we already talked about Bull Durham, so this was Shelton's first sports movie, and

Katie:

so maybe he was just cutting

Katie:

his teeth a little bit

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

Well, and thankfully he wasn't discouraged either.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Now we've already talked about how Kirk Cameron plays Reno and Gigi's son.

Katie:

Now, Tracy Gold, I looked for this and I missed it.

Katie:

Tracy Gold plays an unnamed friend

Katie:

of Jack and

Katie:

Holly's daughter

Craig:

okay.

Katie:

Ellie's daughter.

Craig:

I, I, I don't remember seeing her, but I can tell you the

Craig:

exact scene she was in.

Katie:

You can,

Katie:

okay.

Craig:

um, It's when they're having dinner and her friends come over and

Craig:

she like leaves the dinner table and all her friends are at the front door.

Craig:

That's gotta be

Craig:

the scene.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

I missed it,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Well, no, I don't remember seeing Traci Gold, but like in the back of

Craig:

my head I'm like, there was a group

Craig:

of

Craig:

girls

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

It had to have been then,

Craig:

she

Craig:

was one of those girls.

Katie:

Yep.

Katie:

Well, so obviously by the time this movie released Cameron and Gold were playing

Katie:

brother and sister in growing pains.

Katie:

And then same on the same thread, Russell played Dexter Riley in the

Katie:

computer wore tennis shoes, Pro 1969.

Katie:

Well, Cameron, Kirk, Cameron played that same role in 1995

Katie:

when they did a television

Katie:

remake for it.

Craig:

oh wow.

Craig:

That's

Katie:

little connection.

Craig:

a connection.

Craig:

after the fact.

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

and then the real kid, Lester died in 1916, so I didn't even

Katie:

know that was a real person, but apparently it's a real person.

Katie:

And he died in 1916 at the age of 26.

Katie:

So it couldn't have

Katie:

been,

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

So they got

Craig:

a little

Craig:

creative there with the timeline.

Craig:

Yeah.

Craig:

Oh,

Craig:

I,

Katie:

have any final thoughts

Katie:

before we kind of close.

Craig:

no, again, I'm glad we were able to talk about this movie cuz it

Craig:

gave me an excuse to watch it again, as an adult, which I think it's,

Craig:

you know, kind of an adult movie.

Craig:

I always appreciate talking about movies that haven't been covered to

Craig:

death on podcasts because, there are movies that, you know, I'm not

Craig:

gonna say are are forgotten, but it's kind of cool that this movie will,

Craig:

you know, odds are somebody's gonna watch it at some point and Google it.

Craig:

I do that all the time when I watch a movie, I'm like, okay,

Craig:

what podcast has talked about this?

Craig:

So, who knows, maybe a couple years from now somebody's gonna

Craig:

watch this and they'll be like, oh, let me see if there's a podcast.

Craig:

And they're like, oh, retro May did an episode.

Katie:

Yeah.

Craig:

And again, it's, it's always cool to sort of talk about a movie that hasn't

Craig:

been talked to death, uh, and especially since it was your first time watching it.

Craig:

I'm glad you were able to watch a a movie that you hadn't really,

Craig:

uh, been exposed to before.

Craig:

So I, again, again, it's free.

Craig:

You don't have to spend any money to watch this.

Craig:

So if you're ever like on a Saturday, a rainy Saturday, put it

Craig:

on, um, you know, it's worth things you can do with an hour and 45

Craig:

minutes of your time.

Katie:

That's true.

Katie:

And I like movies you can kind of have on in the background and

Katie:

only like, you don't have to super

Katie:

pay attention.

Katie:

I kind of like that too,

Craig:

Well,

Craig:

you, you know what, you know, it's funny on your big trouble in Little

Craig:

China episode, you talked about plot

Craig:

with, with Ryan.

Katie:

Oh,

Craig:

Uh, No, and I'm

Craig:

the same way.

Craig:

And like I, I mentioned I'm a big James Bond fan and for me, like I've

Craig:

never followed those James Bond plots.

Craig:

Like I don't care.

Craig:

Like ultimately it doesn't really matter what the bad guy's doing.

Craig:

We just know he's bad.

Craig:

We know bond's gonna go to a bunch of different cities

Craig:

finding out why the guy's bad.

Craig:

Uh, And it's funny when we do like our Stallone show

Craig:

episodes and we

Katie:

I love

Katie:

those

Katie:

by the way.

Craig:

But like when we're doing like the plot rundowns, I'm like, for me, I'm like,

Craig:

a lot of times I'm the same way as you.

Craig:

Like the plot is kind of like, I don't get too caught up in it.

Craig:

I just rewatched a bunch of mission impossible possible

Craig:

movies and it's the same thing.

Craig:

I'm like, yeah, there's like shadowy, you know, figures doing shadowy

Craig:

things, but ultimately I wanna watch like Tom Cruise hanging off

Craig:

of a plane.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Take it for what it is I, yeah,

Katie:

exactly.

Craig:

I was gonna say, a lot of times

Craig:

plots can really trip up enjoying

Craig:

a movie

Katie:

That's a good point.

Katie:

Especially, if it's your first time watching like an older movie and then

Katie:

your brain has trouble with it sometimes.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

Yeah.

Katie:

While the best of times may not have been a hit, there was a lot of

Katie:

other awesome songs and TV and toys that made January of 1986 seemed like a bust.

Katie:

But we must now return to present day reality until the next retro made episode.

Katie:

Craig, I cannot thank you enough for joining me today to talk Kurt

Katie:

Russell, Robin Williams, the best of times you're a man of many talents.

Katie:

And tell us where we can find some of the projects that

Katie:

you're

Katie:

working on,

Craig:

oh.

Craig:

Well first of all, thank you for having me.

Craig:

Being a guest host on a podcast is.

Craig:

So awesome because, you get a lot of the benefits with not a lot of

Craig:

the work that comes with podcasting.

Craig:

Like basically you told me to be here at this time, and I was able to sit

Craig:

down, and talk the movie with you.

Craig:

So thank you for that.

Craig:

I I love guesting, uh, in terms of where you can find me and what I'm doing.

Craig:

I do have, a landing page.

Craig:

I'll send you

Craig:

the link.

Katie:

I'll link it in the show

Katie:

notes,

Katie:

guys.

Craig:

yeah.

Craig:

Um, but that's got all my stuff.

Craig:

Uh, I'm, uh, probably a month away from releasing my third in, uh,

Craig:

album of all instrumental music.

Craig:

And, um, not to get too in the weeds,

Katie:

That's awesome.

Craig:

uh, My previous projects, I've always worked with deadlines.

Craig:

I'm very deadline like for me, like if I don't have a deadline, odds are I'm

Craig:

not gonna do it.

Craig:

Um,

Katie:

the same way.

Craig:

So for this batch of songs, I said to myself, I'm gonna make a collection of

Craig:

music that's got no l like no deadline.

Craig:

So it's gonna challenge me in a couple ways.

Craig:

It's going to challenge me in the fact that eventually

Craig:

I'm gonna have to finish it.

Craig:

But also like I'm not working under like super time constraints.

Craig:

My first one I made in the month of July, like I wrote and

Craig:

produced and executed it all in

Craig:

a 30 day period.

Katie:

Oh wow.

Craig:

Um, which was really cool.

Craig:

It was a cool experiment.

Craig:

It was a cool way to flex muscles I hadn't flexed before.

Craig:

But for this one it was cool that like I just finished a song, earlier this

Craig:

week that I had initially worked on of.

Craig:

Almost two years ago.

Craig:

And there were aspects of it that I hadn't figured out yet.

Craig:

So it's kind of neat to start something, put it in the closet for a while, and

Craig:

then come back to it because it's almost like you're collaborating with yourself,

Craig:

Because it's like relearning, like, why did I do this?

Craig:

Or why did I play this chord or whatever.

Craig:

And then figuring out how to finish it.

Craig:

And like I said, it, it's like, for me it's like solving a puzzle

Craig:

or a math problem or something.

Craig:

So I'm really looking forward to that.

Craig:

I do have a Bandcamp page.

Craig:

I think if you search Craig Cohen or Mr.

Craig:

Craig Cohen, on Google, you'll find most of my, you'll find

Craig:

links to most of my stuff.

Craig:

But on my band camp page, you can listen to everything.

Craig:

You can listen on Spotify if you search Craig Cohen.

Craig:

But yeah, That's oh, thank you.

Craig:

And, and then.

Craig:

Also, uh, the Sly cast feed outside of less of the Action

Craig:

Heroes podcast is still active.

Craig:

There's hours and hours of me analyzing Stallone movies with people.

Craig:

And then also I do have an independent feed for a show I did called Big

Craig:

Screen Book Club, which we talked about movies and movies that were

Craig:

adapted, uh, which is pretty neat.

Craig:

That never really took off the way I thought it was mainly because.

Craig:

It's a lot easier to sit down and watch a 90 minute movie than sit

Craig:

down and read a two or 300 page book.

Katie:

That's true,

Craig:

And then also the most

Craig:

recent, like podcasting stuff I've done outside of the Network was a show

Craig:

I did called Conversations at Jack Robert Slims, which was, a deep dive

Craig:

into Pulp Fiction, where each episode I sat down with a different fan of the

Craig:

movie and we kind of just hash it out.

Craig:

So, uh, but all that's included in that landing

Craig:

page that,

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Good.

Craig:

There's plenty of ways to find me if you're at all interested in listening

Craig:

to me blather or, you know, listen to, the strange music that I create.

Craig:

And either way, I appreciate

Craig:

the exposure.

Katie:

That's

Katie:

Awesome.

Katie:

Aw.

Katie:

I'll have the link to his stuff in the show notes, everyone.

Katie:

And thank you all for listening or watching.

Katie:

Please remember to share the show.

Katie:

And remember, a review and or a rating does go a long way to help

Katie:

other retro junkies find the show.

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About the Podcast

Retromade
Your pop culture rewind
Welcome to the Retromade Podcast, where we take a nostalgic trip down memory lane and explore the best of the 80s and 90s pop culture.

Join us as we dive into the iconic movies, TV shows, music, fashion, cartoons, toys, and other cultural trends that defined these two decades. From the classic coming-of-age films of John Hughes to the unforgettable TV shows like The Cosby Show, Cheers, The Golden Girls, Friends, and Seinfeld; we’ll explore the moments that shaped our childhoods and continue to resonate with us today.

Get ready to reminisce about the music that dominated the charts, from the hair metal of Guns N’ Roses to the pop hits of Madonna and Michael Jackson. We’ll also take a look at the fads and trends that defined the era, from the neon colors of fashion to the boombox on every street corner.

But it’s not just about the big names and big moments. We’ll also dive deep into the lesser-known corners of 80s and 90s culture, from cult classic movies like The Breakfast Club and Big Trouble in Little China to underground bands that never quite made it big. And of course, we can’t forget the deliciously retro snacks & cereals that were a staple of our childhoods.

Join us as we explore the pop culture of the past, and discover how it still shapes our lives today. Whether you’re a child of the 80s, 90s, or just a fan of retro culture, this podcast is for you. So grab a slice of pizza, put on your favorite band t-shirt, and tune in to the Retromade Podcast.
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