Podchaser Logo Rate on Podchaser

Episode 4

full
Published on:

14th Jun 2023

Backdraft | S1E4

In this episode of Retromade, we travel back to 1991 for a blockbuster Kurt Russell film with a star-studded cast and impressive special effects - Backdraft!

I'm joined by Jared Tockstein from The Hyper Space: Podcasting in the 25th Century

Jared is a broadcasting professional of over 25 years. Jared has a passion for film and sci-fi, which he has turned into a giant waste of time with his podcast The Hyper Space. (wink)

Check out Jared's show: www.thehyperspace.net

Please get in touch to tell me what you think - RetromadePodcast@gmail.com

Follow or Listen: https://retromade.captivate.fm

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RetromadePodcast

Join the fun: https://www.facebook.com/retromadepodcast

Want to offer a tip in support of the show: https://retromade.captivate.fm/support

Transcript
Speaker:

Katie:

Hello.

Katie:

Hello, I'm Katie and this is Retro Made Your Pop Culture Rewind.

Katie:

Let's continue our exploration of the best of the eighties and nineties.

Katie:

Today we continue our examination of Ultimate everyman Kurt Russell,

Katie:

with one of his most notable roles.

Katie:

We will travel back to May of 1991 for an amazing visual effects

Katie:

experience with an All-star cast.

Katie:

And today I am delighted to be joined by Jared

Katie:

Toine.

Jared Tockstein:

Hello.

Katie:

He is from the Hyperspace Podcasting in the 25th century.

Katie:

Jared, thank you so much for joining me on Retro Made.

Jared Tockstein:

It's my pleasure.

Jared Tockstein:

I am very happy to be here and I love your show, Katie.

Katie:

Oh, thank you so much.

Katie:

I'm glad to hear that feedback is always welcome.

Katie:

Now tell us a little bit about your show.

Katie:

I also very much like the hyperspace.

Jared Tockstein:

Well, thank you., the Hyperspace is a show that I

Jared Tockstein:

do with my buddies, Matt and Mike.

Jared Tockstein:

And, , , the DNA of our show is, all, being children of the seventies, uh,

Jared Tockstein:

growing up in this time of Star Wars and Steven Spielberg and Indiana Jones

Jared Tockstein:

and, and all those fantastic movies which kind of shaped our young lives.

Jared Tockstein:

That's where we start.

Jared Tockstein:

And we've, we talk about modern stuff as you know.

Jared Tockstein:

Um, geek culture these days is a massive business if, as you can tell, behind

Jared Tockstein:

me with all this junk in my house.

Jared Tockstein:

And we, we sort of, , revel in being, um, middle-aged children.

Katie:

I love it so much.

Katie:

That's a really good way of putting it.

Katie:

Middle-aged children

Katie:

and geek culture.

Katie:

I like it.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

So that's kind of what we're about.

Jared Tockstein:

Um, and if you want to come check us out sometime,

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

Everyone check out the hyperspace.

Katie:

It's fun.

Katie:

It's very fun.

Katie:

Little something for everyone, I think.

Jared Tockstein:

Well, we try to be diverse in that way.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, don't just focus on the stuff from the seventies and eighties.

Jared Tockstein:

We talk about some new stuff, , some stuff that we en enjoy currently.

Jared Tockstein:

, Katie, I believe, uh, you, you're a fan of Lost the TV show.

Jared Tockstein:

, we've done a few episodes on that so hopefully you'll find something you like,

Katie:

Indeed.

Katie:

Well, without further ado, let's open the time capsule from May of 1991.

Jared Tockstein:

man.

Katie:

So this is the latest movie , that I've done so far on the show.

Katie:

Now, Jared, we'll get into some of your experience in 1991, but

Katie:

to set the stage a little bit,

Katie:

according to Nielsen ratings, this is a great lineup, the top ratings because

Katie:

it's an awesome season for women on tv.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh oh.

Jared Tockstein:

What do we got?

Katie:

We have Cheers, Roseanne, I still watch that today.

Katie:

It's a good show.

Katie:

She went off to the deep end a little bit, but it was progressive Fritz's time.

Katie:

, a different world.

Katie:

The Cosby Show, Murphy Brown.

Katie:

Empty nest.

Katie:

The Golden Girls, of course, designing women murder she wrote, , so

Katie:

that's a lot of women right there.

Jared Tockstein:

Sure.

Katie:

And then we have Full House and Family Matters, which, I think the,

Katie:

that was part of the T G I F block

Katie:

at the time.

Katie:

And when I looked it up, I think, so this was about two years in, I think

Katie:

that started in 89, I want to say.

Katie:

Oh yes.

Katie:

Friday night sitcom block that aired on a b ABC starting in 89.

Katie:

And obviously the name comes from the popular phrase, thank God it's Friday.

Katie:

The lineup for T G I F.

Katie:

in 91, , was full house, then Family Matters, then Perfect Strangers,

Katie:

and then going places, which only ran for one season and it was

Katie:

replaced by Baby Talk in March.

Katie:

Also,

Jared Tockstein:

I don't remember

Katie:

not, well known.

Katie:

Yeah, so going places.

Katie:

Starred Alan Rock, Jerry Levine, who I just guessed on a show about Teen Wolf.

Katie:

, Jerry Levine plays the coach in Teen Wolf, so that's fun.

Katie:

Heather Lawler.

Jared Tockstein:

awesome.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

, and then the supporting cast also had Stacy Keenan and Holland Taylor.

Katie:

So there's some famous people in it, but it clearly didn't do well.

Katie:

And then Baby Talk also only ran for one year, but also it had George Clooney,

Katie:

Scott Bayo and Tony Dan's voice.

Katie:

It was actually loosely based on the, look who's talking movie.

Katie:

So

Katie:

kind of strange.

Katie:

So Tony Dances voiced the baby,

Katie:

but again, neither of those shows despite their cast, um, lasted for very long.

Jared Tockstein:

wow.

Jared Tockstein:

I Baby talk seemed to me like it was gonna be, uh, a, a tribute

Jared Tockstein:

show to, uh, Luke who's talking.

Jared Tockstein:

That's seems the era specific.

Jared Tockstein:

So, yeah.

Katie:

And then rounding out the top shows, , includes Matt Locke, coach

Katie:

with Craig t Nelson and who's the boss, which was one of my favorites.

Katie:

Do any of these sound familiar

Jared Tockstein:

Um,

Katie:

any of those shows?

Jared Tockstein:

uh, I did watch Coach, um, pretty religiously.

Jared Tockstein:

My parents loved it.

Jared Tockstein:

And, uh, of course the Golden Girls, uh, I believe by the early

Jared Tockstein:

nineties they were wrapping it up.

Jared Tockstein:

And, , some of the T G F T G I F lineup, of course.

Jared Tockstein:

So, um, if you can hear a dog scratching at my door, he's trying to get in here.

Jared Tockstein:

I apologize for the extraneous noise.

Katie:

Oh, what kind of dog do you have?

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, he is a Yorkie.

Katie:

Oh, so he could just sit in your lap this

Jared Tockstein:

no, he's a real pain in the butt, actually.

Jared Tockstein:

, I'm sorry for any noise.

Jared Tockstein:

I'll try to keep that to a minimum.

Katie:

No worries.

Jared Tockstein:

But, yeah, the T G I F lineup , I watched.

Jared Tockstein:

, but, , you know, usually Friday nights, , I was usually out at

Jared Tockstein:

this, at this particular year, I was, like hanging with , my buddies.

Jared Tockstein:

So, , I didn't watch a whole lot of TV on Friday nights,

Jared Tockstein:

but I do remember that lineup.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

You were too cool for TV on

Katie:

Friday nights at at that age.

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, there was no way Jared Toine was

Jared Tockstein:

sitting at home on a Friday night,

Katie:

No way.

Katie:

No way.

Katie:

As

Katie:

we'll get into, , I also wanted to note there were a few shows that

Katie:

you'll, that, that you will all hopefully remember that premiered.

Katie:

So they weren't necessarily topping the Nielsen ratings, but they premiered,

Katie:

, in this season in 91 Home Improvement with, , Tim, the Tool Man Taylor,

Jared Tockstein:

mm-hmm.

Katie:

step by step, which, , ultimately became part of the T G I F lineup.

Katie:

Dinosaurs.

Katie:

Do you remember that show with

Katie:

the, like real

Katie:

dinosaurs,

Jared Tockstein:

yes.

Jared Tockstein:

It was made by, , Jim Henson's company.

Katie:

oh, was it

Jared Tockstein:

They made the puppets for that show.

Katie:

remember really liking it.

Katie:

, I mean, I'll have to maybe check out an episode to see if it, , stands the test

Katie:

of time, but I remember liking that show.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

It was different for sure.

Katie:

Definitely different.

Katie:

And then Rug Rats, which I think was on Nickelodeon.

Katie:

It was a cartoon,

Katie:

, salute Your Shorts was, , and Ren and Stimpy show were a couple

Katie:

of other kids' shows during that time that were introduced.

Katie:

And then Silk Stockings, do you remember

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, was that on the USA Network?

Jared Tockstein:

I

Katie:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

now.

Jared Tockstein:

I can't say that, you know, I, I watched it, but it was one of

Jared Tockstein:

those things that sort of like everybody knew about back then.

Jared Tockstein:

It was a little provocative, you know,

Katie:

it was,

Jared Tockstein:

almost R-rated.

Katie:

yeah, it was very seductive.

Katie:

And the male actor in that Rob Estes, I remember thinking he was super hot.

Katie:

So I very much liked this show.

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Fantastic.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

And then, the notable finales in 91.

Katie:

The 356th and final episode of CBS's, second longest running

Katie:

series was Dallas, so it was second only to gun smoke apparently,

Katie:

but it ended in 91.

Jared Tockstein:

I remember, I think my parents actually watched

Jared Tockstein:

that all the way up until the end.

Katie:

I

Katie:

don't think I've ever seen an episode of Dallas

Jared Tockstein:

you know, I'm sorry to digress, but my parents have recently

Jared Tockstein:

discovered the magic of these apps, like Tuby and stuff, and they recently, they're

Jared Tockstein:

both in their mid seventies and they went back last year , and they would just

Jared Tockstein:

watch Dallas binge it for hours at a time.

Jared Tockstein:

I'd call him and he is like, Hey, we're watching Dallas.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, can you call back later?

Katie:

Is this the who Shot Jr.

Katie:

Show.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

I'm familiar with the reference, but I've not seen the

Jared Tockstein:

Oh yeah, that was a huge thing in like 1980.

Jared Tockstein:

It was like everybody, and I remember that as a little kid.

Katie:

I'm kind of surprised it ran all the way into 91, but

Katie:

it did.

Katie:

And then 21 Jump Street with Johnny Depp.

Katie:

I loved that show.

Katie:

That ended in 91, apparently.

Jared Tockstein:

Holy cow.

Jared Tockstein:

I didn't even know it had started by then.

Katie:

It was, 87, I think maybe it was the first season

Katie:

or 88.

Katie:

One of those, , Hey dude, which was a Nickelodeon show, dude.

Katie:

Did you watch that at all?

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, a couple,

Katie:

old for it.

Jared Tockstein:

I, but I remember it was about them on a ranch.

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, I wasn't, a religious follower of it, but certainly was aware of it.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

It was you know, a kid's teenage show.

Katie:

I liked it.

Katie:

Head of the Class, which I remember thinking was a good show, and Twin Peaks,

Katie:

which I think they made a remake recently

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah, it was actually a sequel to the, , to the original show.

, Katie:

another season of it, just

, Katie:

many years later.

Jared Tockstein:

Set many years la like one of the legacy sequels.

Katie:

Ah, okay.

Jared Tockstein:

I was really into that show the first season,

Jared Tockstein:

but , it got really weird and I kind of fell off in the second.

Jared Tockstein:

But, it certainly has its fans.

Jared Tockstein:

Twin Peaks.

Katie:

I do remember it being different my parents maybe watched it

Jared Tockstein:

much different.

Katie:

So did I miss anything that you were watching around this time that wasn't

Katie:

super popular or premiered or ended?

Jared Tockstein:

No, I think you certainly, you hit a lot

Jared Tockstein:

of , the highlights, , But at this time I was more into movies.

Jared Tockstein:

I was just all about movies.

Jared Tockstein:

If I was watching something on tv, it was usually a movie.

Jared Tockstein:

, and , of course going to movies , that would consume my life at that time.

Jared Tockstein:

And when I did watch tv, it was usually with, you know, my

Jared Tockstein:

folks , in the evening or something.

Katie:

Do

Katie:

you remember any specific movie memories from this time?

Jared Tockstein:

oh yeah, I mean, back draft certainly is one.

Katie:

Good.

Jared Tockstein:

I think in 91, one of the big things for me that summer was,

Jared Tockstein:

, that was the summer of Terminator two.

Katie:

Yes, it was.

Katie:

Yep.

Jared Tockstein:

And that, of course, for a young science fiction

Jared Tockstein:

nerd was sort of like the pinnacle.

Jared Tockstein:

, 91 was also the summer that, Robinhood Prince of Thieves was

Katie:

was a phenomenon, wasn't it?

Katie:

I

Katie:

remember that.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah, I actually, I saw that a few times in the theater.

Jared Tockstein:

And, back then even, , Kevin Costner's terrible disappearing accent,

Jared Tockstein:

, didn't really bother me that much cuz I thought it was such a fun movie.

Jared Tockstein:

And, , this was also the summer that, , bill and Ted's bogus journey came out.

Jared Tockstein:

And

Katie:

the second

Jared Tockstein:

the second one, and I love Bill and Ted and that was one

Jared Tockstein:

that I saw multiple times that Summer

Katie:

Summer movies.

Katie:

Yeah, that was a whole thing.

Jared Tockstein:

Oh yeah, it was a big deal.

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, it's still somewhat big deal today, but it felt like back then,

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, it felt like, you know, big and special and, , it was something

Jared Tockstein:

you look forward to all year long.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

It's a different movie going experience now, which is why

Katie:

I like to, go back in time

Jared Tockstein:

When, we start to talk about backdraft and my

Jared Tockstein:

specific memories of that, do you remember, it's a, it's, did you

Jared Tockstein:

have in your town where you grew up?

Jared Tockstein:

The dollar movies.

Katie:

We didn't, I don't think, because.

Katie:

I didn't live in a big city.

Katie:

It was a smaller, so we only had one movie theater and it was the regular movie

Jared Tockstein:

gotcha.

Jared Tockstein:

Gotcha.

Jared Tockstein:

Oh,

Jared Tockstein:

well

Katie:

must have lived in the big old city there,

Jared Tockstein:

well, I was, I grew up in, uh, Knoxville, Tennessee, and it's

Jared Tockstein:

the third largest city in Tennessee.

Jared Tockstein:

I did not see Backdraft in the first run theaters.

Jared Tockstein:

I saw it at the dollar movies.

Jared Tockstein:

And the dollar movies, they're kind of like what I refer to as movie purgatory.

Jared Tockstein:

Like it's after they leave the first run theaters, but before

Jared Tockstein:

they appear on home video,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared Tockstein:

They would always make a stop at the dollar movies.

Jared Tockstein:

And so that's where I would see a lot of films that I

Jared Tockstein:

missed, , on their initial release.

Jared Tockstein:

And you could still see 'em , in a, a nice theatrical setting,

Jared Tockstein:

but it only cost you a dollar.

Katie:

It was actually only a dollar.

Katie:

It wasn't like five bucks

Jared Tockstein:

No, I mean, well, when it started in the early

Jared Tockstein:

nineties, it was still a dollar.

Jared Tockstein:

Of course as time went on, it got to be a buck 50 and $2, but you

Jared Tockstein:

could still , see a movie in a theater for a pretty good deal.

Jared Tockstein:

But the, of course, the concession stands were still full price.

Jared Tockstein:

So if you wanted to maintain that, , discount, you had

Jared Tockstein:

to sneak in,, your snacks.

Jared Tockstein:

But, um,

Katie:

You would never have done that though.

Jared Tockstein:

No, I never did

Katie:

No.

Jared Tockstein:

the, uh, but dollar movies are a thing that I think today

Jared Tockstein:

are probably almost gone because there's like no time between, for

Jared Tockstein:

example, creed three, , I saw that and like a month later I saw on

Jared Tockstein:

Facebook it was available to stream

Katie:

You're right.

Jared Tockstein:

there's just no time anymore between.

Katie:

and to that point, creed three, was a well marketed movie,

Katie:

So imagine if it wasn't, , you have zero chance then it seems like

Katie:

to kind of make it in the theaters.

Jared Tockstein:

Oh yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

, and it's just crazy to me these days that, you know, within weeks of it even

Jared Tockstein:

being released to theaters and Creed Three was not an insignificant film.

Jared Tockstein:

As you said, it made a lot of money.

Jared Tockstein:

It was very successful, but boom, you could watch it at home four weeks later.

Jared Tockstein:

It's, uh, it

Jared Tockstein:

kind

Katie:

even saw the Avatar movie.

Katie:

I mean, I don't know how long ago that was released,

Jared Tockstein:

yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

Avatar

Katie:

avatar was such a big deal that probably was in theaters forever,

Katie:

the original

Jared Tockstein:

was, it was.

Jared Tockstein:

And um, it's just a, it's fascinating to me as a V h S kid,

Jared Tockstein:

that it, it's changed so much.

Jared Tockstein:

This theatrical experience.

Jared Tockstein:

And certainly I wouldn't have been able to see Backdraft in the way I

Jared Tockstein:

did if, not for the dollar movies.

Katie:

I like it.

Katie:

That's a nice blast from the past.

Katie:

Thanks, Jared.

Katie:

, yeah, let's get back to 91 because yeah, present day doesn't have

Katie:

the same feel to it clearly.

Katie:

Now, since you weren't like a little child,

Katie:

I am going to just breeze through some of the cartoons and then get

Katie:

into some of the stuff that might have been more up your alley.

Katie:

The lineup for Saturday morning was the Muppet Babies, and this

Katie:

is their last season in 91.

Katie:

And I Love yeah, so this was their last go Garfield and Friends,

Katie:

the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Katie:

I remember very vividly that that was such a huge deal.

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

I mean, , I'm a girl , but I still very much remember it.

Katie:

Where's Waldo Inspector Gadget?

Katie:

I remember watching that after school

Katie:

more so, but I loved Inspector Gadget.

Jared Tockstein:

Yep.

Katie:

Penny Brain.

Jared Tockstein:

Dr.

Jared Tockstein:

Claw.

Katie:

Ooh, that's pretty good.

Jared Tockstein:

Thanks.

Katie:

It's like you should have a job in voiceover work

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, if only if anyone out there is listening to the Retro Made

Jared Tockstein:

show and would like to offer me a job,

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Listen to this voice, you

Katie:

guys.

Jared Tockstein:

find me in the show notes.

Katie:

indeed.

Katie:

And then of course saved by the bell.

Katie:

I don't know if that was a little too, were you too old for Saved by the bell?

Jared Tockstein:

No,

Katie:

the girls are pretty

Jared Tockstein:

Saved by the Bell, I'll never forget, this was a few years

Jared Tockstein:

later, but I was sitting with my buddies.

Jared Tockstein:

We had taken a trip after we were.

Jared Tockstein:

After we graduated high school in 93 and there was a saved by the Bell

Jared Tockstein:

marathon on, we were in Florida and we stayed in our room all day and watched

Jared Tockstein:

this Saved by the Bell Marathon.

Katie:

It's good, right?

Jared Tockstein:

You just get sucked into

Katie:

You do.

Jared Tockstein:

And yeah, there was pretty ladies on there too,

Katie:

Yep.

Katie:

Cute guys too.

Katie:

So a little something for all of

Katie:

us.

Jared Tockstein:

Something for everybody.

Katie:

it's true.

Katie:

So we'll move past that since, so you were a teenager in 91.

Katie:

What were you wearing?

Katie:

What was your fashion sense?

Katie:

Cuz we're gonna talk fashion in the nineties.

Jared Tockstein:

I was wearing in 1991, , one of my favorite, my favorite

Jared Tockstein:

band of all time is the Beastie Boys.

Jared Tockstein:

And

Jared Tockstein:

, and in 1991, around this era, I was dressing like the Beastie Boy.

Jared Tockstein:

I wanted to be like them.

Jared Tockstein:

So it was probably baggy jeans, , an Adidas t-shirt

Jared Tockstein:

and, , of course Adidas shoes.

Jared Tockstein:

Maybe, I guess like a skater would look,

Katie:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

That's kind of how I dressed.

Jared Tockstein:

It was a lot of t-shirts, , jeans, Adidas sneakers, that's sort

Jared Tockstein:

of how I rolled back then.

Katie:

How did you wear your hair

Katie:

when you were 16 ish?

Jared Tockstein:

It was, man, if I had a picture of it, I

Katie:

I do need a 16 year old picture of Jared.

Katie:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

okay.

Jared Tockstein:

It was long on top,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared Tockstein:

shaved all the way around and pulled back to a ponytail.

Katie:

I do wish I had a picture of that, but that was very much a hairstyle that

Katie:

a lot of guys had in the early nineties.

Katie:

And there's different terms for it that we'll get into, curtain is a

Katie:

hairstyle where it's long fringe divided, either in the middle

Katie:

or parted, , but some kid, like you pulled it back like

Jared Tockstein:

Well, yeah, but if it was down, it would just part in the middle and

Katie:

yep.

Jared Tockstein:

like into my

Katie:

Into, yes.

Katie:

So picture like listeners, this was like a Leonardo DiCaprio,

Katie:

like kind of picture that,

Katie:

or like skater

Jared Tockstein:

Well, the thing I actually modeled my hair after

Jared Tockstein:

was River Phoenix in, , the opening of Indiana Jones.

Jared Tockstein:

In the last crusade, he had this mop of hair

Jared Tockstein:

that just fell , it was short on the sides and he would,

Jared Tockstein:

he was wearing a hat a lot.

Jared Tockstein:

But that's when I saw that, I was like, man, that's the

Jared Tockstein:

coolest cuz I love Indiana Jones.

Jared Tockstein:

So I was like, man, if I could have a haircut like young Indiana Jones

Jared Tockstein:

and dress like the Beastie Boys, then my life will be complete.

Jared Tockstein:

And

Jared Tockstein:

So that's where I got it from and my mom hated it.

Katie:

Yeah, I'm sure she did.

Katie:

I'm sure all of the moms did, but yeah, I didn't realize that there

Katie:

were different names for it, but a few sources call it a curtain.

Katie:

Some sources call it a mushroom, depending on maybe if your hair

Katie:

wasn't straight or the floppy.

Katie:

Again, it's like really short on the sides or shaved

Katie:

and then like Yeah.

Katie:

Hair on

Jared Tockstein:

those names make sense to me.

Jared Tockstein:

I could totally see why.

Katie:

So that was , the men's haircuts.

Katie:

Either that or as we'll get into, there's a few different types of kid

Katie:

or young adult, , in terms of fashion.

Katie:

But there was, so think of like 9 0 210 Beverly Hills, 9 0 2 1 oh

Katie:

was becoming popular at this time.

Katie:

So the hairstyle that Jason Priestley had in that was also a very popular hairstyle.

Katie:

, they called that the flat top.

Katie:

I

Katie:

don't know if I would call it that, but

Katie:

that really high styled,

Jared Tockstein:

Sort of like a pompadour a little bit.

Jared Tockstein:

Um, and th those guys also, uh, the sideburns were really big.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

I remember loving that hair.

Katie:

Him and Dylan.

Katie:

For girls in 91, the hair was, , mal bangs is like the term for it.

Jared Tockstein:

Is that the, where you spray the bangs up like this?

Katie:

Well, I think there's probably various interpretations,

Katie:

give or take a few years from 91.

Katie:

I think that might have been a little bit earlier.

Katie:

I could be wrong, but the descriptors for what a mal bang is when I looked this up,

Katie:

was, is voluminous feathered bangs, like DJ Tanners on Full House, or

Katie:

Kelly Kowski from Saved by the Bell.

Katie:

Picture that, or Kelly Bundy, , from Married with Children.

Katie:

So that's, if you guys can picture what their hair looked like.

Katie:

That bang is called the Mall Bang.

Jared Tockstein:

Oh boy.

Katie:

Also, , headbands, scrunchies.

Katie:

And then there was also this, , the Cindy Crawford messy voluminous blowout.

Katie:

Do you remember that?

Katie:

Pepsi commercial with Cindy Crawford?

Katie:

And that blowout, but like voluminous, but sort of messy at the same time.

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

and then also natural ringlets ala Mariah Carey,

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Katie:

you can kind of picture that.

Katie:

So that was the hair in terms of fashion trends, 91 neon colors, slouch socks,

Katie:

slip dresses for women, bomber jackets and baby doll dresses , for women.

Katie:

Also layering, like wearing a sweatshirt over a turtleneck

Katie:

or, , socks over leggings.

Katie:

, exercise wear as like your outfit.

Katie:

So leotards, leggings, sweatpants, , bike shorts, suits, body suits.

Katie:

I do remember being a thing, actually they're back now.

Katie:

I have several with, jeans.

Katie:

Do you know what I'm talking about when

Katie:

I say a body suit?

Jared Tockstein:

is it like a jumpsuit or is it the, like the fitness body suit.

Katie:

It is.

Katie:

It, the sleeves could be short, it could be a tank, short or long sleeves.

Katie:

And it's very tight.

Katie:

And the reason it's called a bodysuit, there's no pants to

Katie:

it, but , it snaps in the crotch

Katie:

so that you can wear a fitted, tight look without your shirt coming.

Katie:

Un

Katie:

like untucked.

Jared Tockstein:

gotcha.

Jared Tockstein:

I know what you're talking about.

Katie:

Do you guys remember stirrup leggings?

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

With an oversized top Kes.

Katie:

The shoes, the sneakers Kes.

Jared Tockstein:

Just the white, plain white

Katie:

yep.

Katie:

And then there, as I was talking about a couple different looks, there was

Katie:

both at this time the preppy look like Zach from Saved by the Bell.

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

The Jcrew look with boat shoes.

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

penny loafers.

Katie:

This was also the time of, Ralph Lauren

Katie:

and Tommy Hilfiger.

Katie:

So that, do you remember the preppy look?

Katie:

Did you have friends or

Jared Tockstein:

actually, sometimes I occasionally would adopt the preppy look.

Jared Tockstein:

Do you remember Sebago the shoe?

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Sebago were pretty big.

Jared Tockstein:

This was probably more late eighties,

Jared Tockstein:

maybe 1990.

Jared Tockstein:

You always wore your sebago without socks,

Katie:

Oh,

Jared Tockstein:

were these leather, shoot, I don't, you'll have to look it up.

Jared Tockstein:

It's ridiculous.

Katie:

it like a boat shoe?

Katie:

It's not a boat shoe.

Jared Tockstein:

uh, sorta.

Jared Tockstein:

It's all leather.

Jared Tockstein:

And it's more like a, like a loafer.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

I would occasionally, you know, I had, of course, I mean

Jared Tockstein:

everybody, you had to have, at least, one or two Ralph Lauren Polo shirts.

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, I still have a couple that I wear to work.

Jared Tockstein:

They're rather timeless, those.

Jared Tockstein:

I would occasionally adopt the preppy look if, I had to get my picture made or go

Jared Tockstein:

to church or something, I would clean up.

Jared Tockstein:

But, uh,

Katie:

Yeah, I can see.

Katie:

I can see it.

Katie:

I also kind of adopted different styles depending on , the occasion

Katie:

I remember, and I still do, j crew.

Katie:

I remember maybe a little bit later, like maybe in the mid nineties.

Katie:

I loved getting the catalog and marking all the things that I wanted.

Katie:

So on the complete opposite end of the preppy spectrum, grunge

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

was a style that was popular in

Katie:

the early nineties.

Katie:

So

Katie:

jeans with flannels, oversized cord jackets, combat boots, doc Martins

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

band t-shirts, to your point,

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

Birkenstocks and Short Alls for girls.

Katie:

Jean overalls, but they were short shorts.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

That was gosh, huge in the nineties.

Jared Tockstein:

But I, I, you know, as a young man, I did fancy those overalls.

Jared Tockstein:

I thought they were cute,

Katie:

It was set of sort of interesting pairing combat boots with a dress

Katie:

or something like that I remember.

Katie:

, basically the Nirvana look, because Nirvana was coming out,

Katie:

And if anybody watched the show on M T V, it didn't last very long.

Katie:

But I loved it around this time.

Katie:

I think it was around this time, , my so-called life with

Katie:

Jared Leto, Claire

Jared Tockstein:

Claire Dames.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

Um, Claire Danes was in it, , and was Jared Leto in that?

Katie:

He, know it sounds weird now, but he was the hottest thing that ever lived

Katie:

for somebody like between the ages of like 10 and 16, probably his character

Katie:

name on the show was Jordan Kano, which

Katie:

is so cool.

Katie:

But yeah, he had the long hair

Katie:

grungy look and he was so good looking.

Katie:

Somebody has to remember this Jared Leto

Katie:

back in the day.

Jared Tockstein:

I do remember that show, but , I remember it mostly for, , Claire.

Katie:

she was the main character and she

Katie:

lusted after Jordan.

Katie:

So that's the grunge look.

Katie:

And then also it's, we're just all over the place with the nineties, early

Katie:

nineties supermodels.

Katie:

Do you remember supermodels being a thing?

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, yes, of course.

Jared Tockstein:

Cindy Crawford and Kathy Ireland and, , Angie Everhart, , who

Jared Tockstein:

was the blonde, the blonde one.

Jared Tockstein:

She did a lot of guess stuff.

Jared Tockstein:

I can't

Katie:

Claudia Schiffer is one I remember I remember really liking her.

Katie:

There was a Versace fashion show in 91 that featured, a few like big

Katie:

names and supermodels this time we have Naomi Campbell was in that show.

Katie:

Linda

Katie:

Evangelista, Christie Turton and Cindy Crawford walking that

Katie:

Versace runway lip syncing to George Michael's freedom because I think

Katie:

that was the music video that he

Katie:

featured supermodels in.

Katie:

Right?

Jared Tockstein:

Yep.

Katie:

We can thank supermodels for all of our bulimia and anorexia in the nineties.

Katie:

. Supermodels man.

Katie:

So we're gonna move on to music

Katie:

next.

Katie:

Did I miss anything fashion wise, TV wise, movie wise from

Katie:

your

Jared Tockstein:

I

Katie:

16 year old days?

Jared Tockstein:

No.

Jared Tockstein:

, he covered quite a bit there.

Katie:

I know music is another thing where people can be a little all over

Katie:

the place what kind of music were into in addition to Beastie Boys?

Jared Tockstein:

Hip hop and rap,

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

was pretty much my, I mean, late eighties, into the nineties.

Jared Tockstein:

That's still my favorite kind of music.

Jared Tockstein:

Um,

Katie:

me too.

Jared Tockstein:

I know, I remember you saying this on the Rocky Show and

Jared Tockstein:

I was like, oh, Katie's a hip hop head.

Jared Tockstein:

What, what about it?

Jared Tockstein:

Now of course, I did like some stuff that was on the radio and M t v, you know,

Jared Tockstein:

it's just, it was catchy, but the stuff I was buying in the store was hip hop.

Katie:

That makes sense because it's less likely to be universally

Katie:

popular to be on a top chart.

Katie:

Right.

Katie:

That sort of makes sense.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

And of course back then I was, you know, you, you all, everybody has this

Jared Tockstein:

little rebellious streak and you know, I thought, well, you know, I'm a white

Jared Tockstein:

kid in Tennessee listening to this stuff and, my circle of friends was too,

Jared Tockstein:

but , it was not something that a lot of other people were doing at that time.

Jared Tockstein:

You know, we, we thought, people who listened to the radio and

Jared Tockstein:

liked that stuff were like suckers,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared Tockstein:

you know?

Jared Tockstein:

Cuz it's like, no, we got this secret music that nobody likes.

Jared Tockstein:

That's, that's much better.

Katie:

It's exclusive.

Katie:

And a little like tougher.

Katie:

Well, so she's not tough at all, but the number one song was, I Don't

Katie:

Wanna Cry by Mariah Carey, and I do remember Mariah Carey becoming

Katie:

such a superstar around this time.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

Mariah Carey I was somewhat familiar with because a lot of girls liked Mariah Carey.

Jared Tockstein:

So you had to find that,

Jared Tockstein:

was gonna, that was gonna get you in.

Jared Tockstein:

So Mariah Carey, I was more familiar with than, maybe some of the other ones.

Katie:

I can see that.

Katie:

Number two is Touch Me All Night Long by Kathy Dennis Extremes more than words,

Katie:

which I remember that being so huge.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Katie:

That's a good one.

Katie:

I like the way the kissing game by High Five.

Katie:

I'm unfamiliar with High Five,

Jared Tockstein:

Don't remember that.

Katie:

they were the number four song this week.

Katie:

Again, it's a particular week

Katie:

in May May 24th, I think this, so that was 32 years ago.

Katie:

Backdraft came out.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Katie:

Basically 32 years

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, w Terry, you say it, it's impossible, but

Katie:

Right?

Katie:

I know,

Jared Tockstein:

it, it's really only probably 12 years,

Jared Tockstein:

but if you say it's 32, I'll

Katie:

I know, I know.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

I'm still 25 in my head, so this week in May in 91, , it's such a good lineup also.

Katie:

Then number five is Rhythm of the Heart by Rod Stewart.

Katie:

Number six, please tell me you remember I touched myself by the de vinyls.

Jared Tockstein:

course, everybody remembers that.

Katie:

Oh my.

Katie:

And I think that's probably the only song they had.

Katie:

Maybe that

Jared Tockstein:

oh, they're definitely one of the one hit.

Jared Tockstein:

wonders.

Jared Tockstein:

I remember that video was also a bit provocative.

Katie:

It was

Katie:

Jared Tockstein:

but yeah, of course, everybody knows that song.

Katie:

such a good song.

Katie:

Here we go.

Katie:

C and C Music Factory.

Katie:

Color me bads.

Katie:

I wanna sex you up.

Katie:

Oh my God.

Katie:

Color me bad.

Katie:

I, that was one of my faves at this time

Katie:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

I see.

Jared Tockstein:

I thought it was, I thought I was a little ahead of the curve on that

Jared Tockstein:

because that song first showed up on the new Jack City soundtrack

Katie:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

and that, that was like six months before it took off.

Jared Tockstein:

Like it was on that soundtrack for a while before anybody paid it any attention.

Jared Tockstein:

And I liked that soundtrack a lot.

Jared Tockstein:

So I was playing that music and then when it took off, I was like, ah, that's pop.

Jared Tockstein:

That sucks.

Jared Tockstein:

But I was like, well, you know, six months ago I liked it, so

Katie:

I remember actually being in high school, many like pro

Katie:

six years later after this.

Katie:

Cruising around in my friend's car, but her radio broke and so we literally

Katie:

had a boombox and I recall having the tape color me bad tape that we

Katie:

were playing in a boombox in her car.

Jared Tockstein:

I.

Jared Tockstein:

I have a term for what that is.

Jared Tockstein:

When you put a boombox in your backseat, I call that sidekick because,

Jared Tockstein:

because my sister had this little pink boombox, it was called a sidekick, and

Katie:

the exact boombox that

Jared Tockstein:

yeah, it was probably about this long and, you know, not very

Jared Tockstein:

big, but she didn't use it anymore.

Jared Tockstein:

And I, I didn't have a, a cassette deck that worked in my piece of

Jared Tockstein:

crap and I would throw it in the backseat and play music on it.

Jared Tockstein:

And my friends called it sidekicking,

Katie:

I

Katie:

like that.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

So the, the boom boombox in the backseat, that's a, apparently a universal

Katie:

did anyone else call it Sidekicking?

Katie:

Let us know.

Katie:

What'd you call this?

Katie:

Did you have a charm?

Katie:

Wore it.

Katie:

Okay, moving on.

Katie:

Number nine is Love is a Wonderful Thing by Michael Bolton.

Katie:

I remember him being big too, but

Katie:

I was not, that was not my jam.

Katie:

Michael Bolton.

Jared Tockstein:

Was it too much?

Jared Tockstein:

Like maybe like your parents or something?

Katie:

maybe I just, I guess I didn't like, , cuz I like a lot of

Katie:

the, like rock groups, slow songs.

Katie:

Just

Katie:

not Michael Bolton.

Jared Tockstein:

I get it.

Katie:

Silent Lucidity is number 10 by Queens.

Katie:

Queens,

Jared Tockstein:

Queens, Reich.

Katie:

okay.

Katie:

I've never heard of them before.

Katie:

Thank you for pronouncing it.

Jared Tockstein:

I have heard of them.

Jared Tockstein:

I am unfamiliar with that song.

Katie:

Let's move on then, because the next five are all pretty

Katie:

good.

Katie:

losing my religion by r e m was number

Katie:

11.

Katie:

That's why I wanted to move past go past 10.

Katie:

That was great.

Katie:

I liked r e m, baby Baby by Amy Grant I think she was actually a Christian artist,

Jared Tockstein:

She was.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah, she was.

Jared Tockstein:

And she

Katie:

song crossed over.

Jared Tockstein:

Pretty

Katie:

for, yeah.

Katie:

I was a big Paula Abdul fan, and she has Rush Rush as number

Katie:

13 this week.

Katie:

Did you like Paula.

Katie:

Abdul?

Jared Tockstein:

Well, oh yeah, I did.

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, in, in a Poppy kind of way.

Jared Tockstein:

And also had the opportunity to work with her sometime later.

Jared Tockstein:

Was

Katie:

my God.

Katie:

I think we need to stop this podcast and just talk about that.

Jared Tockstein:

it was, uh, it was a, she's, she was lovely.

Jared Tockstein:

I remember I was coming off of our show and, I was being introduced to her

Jared Tockstein:

and she's like, oh, this is, uh, this is our, this is our producer Jared.

Jared Tockstein:

She, she sort of grabbed my arms and just went in straight in for the mouth.

Katie:

Was she sober at this time or no?

Katie:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Maybe, but, I did the quick, you know, of course at this

Jared Tockstein:

time I'm already a happily married man, and so I just, I quickly gave her the

Jared Tockstein:

cheek right before it landed, and I was like, oh, it's great to meet you.

Jared Tockstein:

But it was at, but first I was like, oh, it's cool.

Jared Tockstein:

I'm gonna meet.

Jared Tockstein:

Paula Abdul and you know, I'd go out there and then it's just like, I was

Jared Tockstein:

like, okay, that was interesting,

Katie:

Did she say anything after that to address?

Katie:

You know, or just you guys both

Jared Tockstein:

Oh no, no, she just she just said, Hey, that's,

Jared Tockstein:

it's really nice to meet you.

Jared Tockstein:

Thanks for a great show and this and that.

Katie:

Oh, Paula.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Oh my gosh.

Katie:

That's a fantastic story and I'm sure there's more to it

Katie:

that I'll have to catch up on

Jared Tockstein:

Sure.

Katie:

Um, number 14 is, you don't have to go home tonight by the triplets.

Katie:

15 is Rock Sets Joy Ride, which was an amazing song, I think that was

Katie:

featured in several soundtracks.

Jared Tockstein:

Joy Ride.

Jared Tockstein:

Now, Rockette, I'm familiar with from the Pretty Woman soundtrack,

Jared Tockstein:

I think she was on that, but I don't, I'm not familiar with Joy Ride.

Jared Tockstein:

It doesn't instantly ring a bell.

Katie:

I can't sing, so I'm not going to sing it.

Katie:

Jared Tockstein:

Of course.

Jared Tockstein:

That's

Jared Tockstein:

wow.

Katie:

you were buying tapes or CDs at this time?

Jared Tockstein:

I was buying tapes.

Jared Tockstein:

I didn't get a CD player.

Jared Tockstein:

I was a very late adopter.

Jared Tockstein:

I think I got one in 90, maybe 93.

Jared Tockstein:

So

Katie:

That doesn't seem too late.

Katie:

I feel like tapes went on for quite a while,

Jared Tockstein:

yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

Well, and it was funny cuz I would get to a point where I was using

Jared Tockstein:

tapes in my car and, I didn't have a CD player in my car yet.

Jared Tockstein:

I would buy, , hip hop and rap I would buy on tape.

Jared Tockstein:

But I was also a huge film score nut.

Jared Tockstein:

I love movie soundtracks, and I would purchase those on CD because I would

Jared Tockstein:

play those on my stereo in my house.

Jared Tockstein:

I wouldn't necessarily play those as I'm driving around.

Jared Tockstein:

So rap was tape, film scores were CDs,

Katie:

I

Jared Tockstein:

then I

Jared Tockstein:

eventually switched over.

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

What kind of a car were you?

Katie:

So you're 16 at this time.

Katie:

Like, listen to the Beastie Boys in your car, driving around

Jared Tockstein:

yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

With my pink boombox.

Jared Tockstein:

I drove a 1985 Dodge Colt Hatchback four speed.

Jared Tockstein:

It was beat up on the front end, but it was a car that my

Jared Tockstein:

parents had just given to me.

Jared Tockstein:

So you cannot, as a 16 year old kid, you cannot say no to that.

Katie:

It's, it's almost like,

Katie:

a rite of passage back in.

Katie:

your day and even still my, like you're a little bit older than I am,

Katie:

but yeah, nobody had like a nice car.

Jared Tockstein:

No, nobody's, getting a brand new, land Rover

Jared Tockstein:

when they're 16 years old.

Katie:

Not in my zip code.

Jared Tockstein:

oh,

Jared Tockstein:

there are kids today who are getting that, but that was not my world

Jared Tockstein:

for

Katie:

Same.

Katie:

Same.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

So moving, there's one more segment before we get into back draft

Katie:

to just make sure everybody's in this world of 1991 with us,

Katie:

with news and events.

Katie:

The space shuttle Discovery, 12 lands hot gas of the day was the, , Oakland Days.

Katie:

Jose Conseco is seen leaving Singer Madonna's apartment.

Katie:

Just that in and of itself was such hot goss,

Jared Tockstein:

I do remember that.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah, that was like on the news,

Katie:

Like, not

Katie:

like a scandalous that, that's just crazy.

Katie:

What an innocent time.

Jared Tockstein:

Oh man, that was crazy.

Jared Tockstein:

It was.

Jared Tockstein:

That was something that was sort of everywhere.

Jared Tockstein:

Like, hey, Jose Conseco is, is he Madonna's new boyfriend?

Jared Tockstein:

We were interested in a lot of weird crap.

Katie:

She had a lot of famous boyfriends, basically

Katie:

everyone.

Jared Tockstein:

And this was around the time where she was

Jared Tockstein:

really being provocative with , her whole sex book and everything.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah, Madonna back then, she was really, upsetting a lot of people

Jared Tockstein:

and putting herself out there.

Jared Tockstein:

I do remember that about the early nineties for sure.

Jared Tockstein:

I remember going into Walden books and you would see the.

Jared Tockstein:

The book, you know,

Katie:

Oh, wow.

Jared Tockstein:

it was back behind the counter and it was all sealed up,

Jared Tockstein:

and it was just like, the embarrassment of buying a Playboy or something, but

Jared Tockstein:

you're spending like $80 on this book.

Jared Tockstein:

But, I did not buy that book, by the way, just to put that out there.

Katie:

I actually wouldn't mind reading it.

Katie:

Now I do really like Madonna.

Katie:

I mean, most people do, she's iconic.

Katie:

, but I at this time, . I'm like 10 ish, and I remember that being a, , a big scan.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

We didn't have the internet,

Katie:

so it was, you hear things this way or that way, and I remember

Katie:

that being a big scandalous thing.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

It was a much more mysterious world in the early nineties,

Jared Tockstein:

internet.

Katie:

We did not have an Apple computer, but they released their

Katie:

Macintosh system seven in 1991.

Katie:

So maybe our school had it remember there being a computer lab

Jared Tockstein:

Yo.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Katie:

you know?

Jared Tockstein:

I certainly do.

Jared Tockstein:

And we did use a little Apple two E's when I was in high school.

Jared Tockstein:

The, just the little weird looking, apple computers with the

Jared Tockstein:

integrated monitor and everything.

Katie:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, I thought I was living in the future at that

Katie:

you were, you were, and now it's a relic.

Katie:

I love it when I see a movie with it and it was like such high tech stuff at the

Jared Tockstein:

Oh yeah.

Katie:

Edith Creson, who I had not heard of, because apparently

Katie:

I'm not very worldly, , she became Francis first female.

Katie:

Premiere 91.

Jared Tockstein:

I just learned something new today

Jared Tockstein:

because I had not heard that.

Katie:

And then coming back to America, the Chicago Bull,

Katie:

Michael Jordan is named NBA's.

Katie:

M V P.

Jared Tockstein:

Oh yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

Michael Jordan was everywhere in the early nineties and the late eighties.

Jared Tockstein:

He was, uh, amazing.

Katie:

I remember him more mid nineties, I guess.

Katie:

I don't realize that he started

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

He started, , late eighties.

Jared Tockstein:

That's when the, that's when the Jordan, , sneakers really took off

Katie:

Oh, that's right.

Jared Tockstein:

yeah, they just made a movie

Katie:

a movie about yeah.

Katie:

Did you see it?

Katie:

I haven't seen it

Jared Tockstein:

it's, on Prime.

Jared Tockstein:

I think I wanna watch that now.

Katie:

it's on Prime already, like we

Jared Tockstein:

And I, I think like two weeks ago it was in the theaters, so,

Katie:

yeah.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Well, I'm gonna watch that.

Katie:

The Soviet Parliament approves a law allowing citizens to travel abroad.

Katie:

That was like two-ish years post the end of the Cold War.

Katie:

So it took that long.

Katie:

Right.

Jared Tockstein:

Katie, Katie, we know the Cold War ended when, in

Katie:

Rocky, I know

Jared Tockstein:

when Rocky Balboa defeated Ivan Drago but I guess it

Jared Tockstein:

just takes, the big machine a, a while to catch up but that does seem, uh,

Jared Tockstein:

like, yeah.

Katie:

They're finally allowing their citizens

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

So it, it's not something that just happened instantaneously.

Katie:

That kind of surprised me.

Katie:

A lot of sad things on here.

Katie:

Actually.

Katie:

223 people die when an Austrian, Boeing 7 67 explodes in Bangkok.

Katie:

Big old plane crash.

Katie:

Robert Duvall marries Sharon Broy.

Katie:

I don't know who that is, but Robert Duvall got married

Katie:

in May of 91.

Katie:

Bing, Crosby's son Dennis commits suicide.

Katie:

He was 54.

Katie:

I know.

Jared Tockstein:

I heard being was a tough, , father.

Katie:

Really?

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah, he was.

Jared Tockstein:

That's, I would just say if you want to know more, Google it because

Jared Tockstein:

he was, , I mean I don't want to ruin your Christmas albums or

Jared Tockstein:

anything, but, he was a bad drunk.

Katie:

Ooh.

Katie:

Oh, that is sad.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah, I try not to think about it cuz I like his Christmas

Jared Tockstein:

album so much and since I'm a shallow, bad person, I would rather listen to

Jared Tockstein:

white Christmas than think about what he

Katie:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

doing to his family.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

You're so terrible.

Katie:

And then the last bit of news from May of 91 that I thought people might

Katie:

find interesting is that , the prime minister of India was assassinated.

Katie:

I don't remember hearing about that, but assassinations are pretty

Katie:

few and far between, aren't they?

Jared Tockstein:

I would think so.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

Especially if like heads of state like that.

Katie:

Is there anything else that you remember from this time?

Jared Tockstein:

Now I've gotta take it back to music because one of my

Jared Tockstein:

favorite albums of this year, and you may have heard this song cuz it

Jared Tockstein:

was one of their most famous songs.

Jared Tockstein:

Do you remember the rap group?

Jared Tockstein:

Third base?

Katie:

No third base,

Jared Tockstein:

Oh.

Jared Tockstein:

They had a song where they were dissing Vanilla Ice called Pop Goes the Weasel.

Katie:

Oh, I, I guarantee I've heard that song, but just, I didn't recall the group.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Katie:

Vanilla Ice was a thing.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

And these guys, uh, third base were also white rappers who came out and

Jared Tockstein:

made this whole video of them like beating up a vanilla ice lookalike.

Jared Tockstein:

And the song was called Pop Goes the Weasel.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, and it was, they sampled, , the song Sludge Hammerer from Peter Gabriel.

Jared Tockstein:

It was, and it's ironic that this song, they were making fun of pop and this

Jared Tockstein:

song is their only song that actually charted in the top 10 that year.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, so

Katie:

enough to get in the top 10.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

That's funny.

Jared Tockstein:

That's one of my big musical memories.

Katie:

that's funny.

Katie:

I think I know what you're talking about.

Katie:

I don't know what year it was.

Katie:

, Suge Knight talking about, , rap.

Katie:

Didn't he almost kill Nell Ice or was that a blown up story?

Jared Tockstein:

I don't know.

Jared Tockstein:

I think I've heard Vanilla

Katie:

him over a balcony or

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

That was the mid nineties or something.

Jared Tockstein:

When,

Jared Tockstein:

he started getting in with, , Dr.

Jared Tockstein:

Dre and all those guys and, but yeah, Vanilla Ice , is interesting, cuz

Jared Tockstein:

when he first came out, , liking hip hop, being a white kid, I was like,

Jared Tockstein:

man, , and you know, ice, ice Baby.

Jared Tockstein:

I was like, oh man, this is pretty good.

Jared Tockstein:

But then it's one of those things where like af flips was switched

Jared Tockstein:

and it was, nobody liked him.

Jared Tockstein:

He was a huge joke.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Same with, uh, milli Vanilli.

Katie:

When it became known that they were lip syncing and now everybody lip

Katie:

syncs when they're performing it seems

Katie:

But there was this idea of a manufactured.

Katie:

Celebrity that we didn't appreciate back in the day.

Katie:

I feel like that's maybe what happened.

Katie:

Vanilla Ice was a little too manufactured when I

Katie:

was 10.

Katie:

I thought he was super cool.

Katie:

His hair and everything.

Jared Tockstein:

Well, it's funny, when my daughter was growing up, she started

Jared Tockstein:

to, because Ice, ice Baby is a catchy song

Jared Tockstein:

and I can, I've memorized it, I can wrap it in like two seconds.

Jared Tockstein:

Alright.

Jared Tockstein:

Stop, collaborate, and listen.

Jared Tockstein:

I suspect with my brand new invention, something grab a hold of

Jared Tockstein:

me tightly flow like a heartbeat.

Jared Tockstein:

Daily and nightly.

Jared Tockstein:

Will it ever stop?

Jared Tockstein:

Yo, I don't know.

Jared Tockstein:

Turn out the lights and I'll flow to the extreme.

Jared Tockstein:

I'll rock a mic like a van.

Jared Tockstein:

Loto bikes will chop up like a candle dance.

Jared Tockstein:

Okay, I'm, that's

Katie:

That,

Jared Tockstein:

I don't want get you, I don't wanna give you

Jared Tockstein:

a copyright strike or anything.

Jared Tockstein:

So,

Katie:

No, I'm a big Tupac fan and so when I'm in my car

Katie:

alone, I like how ridiculous.

Katie:

Me, I don't know for viewers, I don't look like the type that is

Katie:

wrapping to Tupac songs, but he's my ultimate and I love him, so

Jared Tockstein:

I totally get it.

Jared Tockstein:

I am the same way.

Jared Tockstein:

I got you.

Jared Tockstein:

So, uh, vanilla ice, now , I guess he's renovates homes now or something.

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

I think you're right.

Katie:

He had a resurgence.

Katie:

Oh my gosh.

Katie:

What was that show?

Katie:

Actually, I can bring almost anything around to a Iraqi reference.

Katie:

There was a show on VH1 that I recall liking back in the day,

Katie:

in the early days of reality.

Katie:

Television.

Katie:

It was called The Surreal Life.

Katie:

And it had sort of like, has been celebrities that

Katie:

lived in a house together.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Katie:

Vanilla Ice was one of them.

Katie:

It was one

Katie:

of the early seasons, maybe the first season.

Katie:

And then Flava fla,

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

And

Katie:

know if they were on the same season.

Katie:

And Nielsen, that's the, I can

Jared Tockstein:

Because they hooked.

Jared Tockstein:

They hooked up.

Jared Tockstein:

She hooked up with,

Jared Tockstein:

yeah, she hooked up with Flavor fla.

Katie:

Yep.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

I don't know if they were all in the same season, but I remember Vanilla

Katie:

Ice being on that show as with Brae,

Katie:

an ex-wife of Sylva Stall Sloan

Katie:

and, uh, Flava Fla.

Jared Tockstein:

Which he got his own spinoff Flavor of Love,

Jared Tockstein:

which was completely ridiculous.

Katie:

And then there was a spinoff of that because

Katie:

there was a character,

Jared Tockstein:

oh.

Jared Tockstein:

There was one of the, one of the

Katie:

New York, one of the women in that.

Katie:

Train wreck that we all wanted to

Jared Tockstein:

Complete train wreck.

Katie:

Yep.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

Patrick Swayze and Kurt Russell?

Katie:

They're my two ultimate everyman for season one.

Katie:

I have to ask

Katie:

everyone, do you think that they resemble each other at all?

Jared Tockstein:

not really.

Katie:

No.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

You're with Ryan on this.

Katie:

I very much think they look alike, but Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, I mean, if they were as brothers, it wouldn't raise

Jared Tockstein:

any flags for me, but I don't think they really resemble each other.

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

All right.

Katie:

I'm trying to get more people on my side.

Katie:

Somebody, please.

Jared Tockstein:

Sorry, Katie.

Katie:

okay.

Katie:

It's all right.

Katie:

, Now regarding Kurt Russell, who's the star of Backdraft,

Katie:

did you look up to him?

Katie:

What are your thoughts about Kurt Russell?

Katie:

Do You have a fandom with him?

Jared Tockstein:

oddly enough, before Backdraft, I did not, I, of course

Jared Tockstein:

I saw him in, uh, big trouble.

Jared Tockstein:

And, as a kid in my house, I really wasn't allowed to watch r rated movies.

Jared Tockstein:

So I had not seen the thing at that time.

Jared Tockstein:

My exposure to Kurt Russell was when he was doing the

Jared Tockstein:

live action Walt Disney stuff.

Jared Tockstein:

Um, so when I was growing up, I would see him, you know, like the

Jared Tockstein:

computer who wore tennis shoes, and he, he did a lot of those sort of

Jared Tockstein:

chinsy live action Disney films and.

Jared Tockstein:

One of the things that fascinates me about Kurt Russell to, to this day

Jared Tockstein:

is that, like me, myself, I'm very interested in Walt Disney as a person.

Jared Tockstein:

And, I've read many books about him and, I'm fascinated in the history of

Jared Tockstein:

the theme parks and that kind of stuff.

Jared Tockstein:

And Walt Disney and one of his last appearances on camera before he died,

Jared Tockstein:

he said, this new film I'm making stars, a young man named Kurt Russell, who is

Jared Tockstein:

gonna have a very long and storied career.

Jared Tockstein:

And Walt said that about Kurt, uh, just like weeks before he died.

Jared Tockstein:

And it's kind of neat.

Jared Tockstein:

And that clip of Walt talking about Kurt, it's on YouTube and

Jared Tockstein:

it's, a fascinating, , watch.

Jared Tockstein:

And

Jared Tockstein:

you also hear that Kurt Russell.

Jared Tockstein:

In interviews he's done, as recently as when he did Guardians of the Galaxy.

Jared Tockstein:

He talks about, uh, his fondness for Walt and how Walt

Jared Tockstein:

treated him, like, like a son.

Jared Tockstein:

And he still calls him.

Jared Tockstein:

He won't call him Walt, he calls him Mr.

Jared Tockstein:

Disney, like, even to this day.

Jared Tockstein:

So it's that kind of thing endears me to Kurt.

Jared Tockstein:

But as far as my exposure to Kurt as a kid was those Disney movies.

Jared Tockstein:

I did see him in like, like I said, big trouble.

Jared Tockstein:

I, I didn't watch him in the thing.

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, I knew who he was and he had been in some comedies

Jared Tockstein:

too that I think I had seen.

Jared Tockstein:

But, when I saw him in Backdraft, I will say Backdraft is probably the first movie

Jared Tockstein:

Kurt Russell movie I saw in a theater.

Katie:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

When I saw it at the Dollar movies and I saw it twice

Jared Tockstein:

because, , and when I say this, this reminds me of a specific time

Jared Tockstein:

in my life, at the dollar movies.

Jared Tockstein:

I didn't see Backdraft about September of that year, , because I didn't

Jared Tockstein:

see it in the first run theaters.

Jared Tockstein:

And as a 16 year old kid, for me, there was no bigger expression of freedom than

Jared Tockstein:

going to the movies on a school night

Katie:

Ooh.

Jared Tockstein:

and driving myself to the movies, honest, like if I

Jared Tockstein:

didn't have any homework and, I had some money in my pocket.

Jared Tockstein:

That's why the dollar movies were perfect.

Jared Tockstein:

I didn't have, I didn't have a real job.

Jared Tockstein:

I was mowing yards and stuff, but it was cheap.

Jared Tockstein:

It wasn't that far from my house, and if I didn't have any homework, I could

Jared Tockstein:

go see a movie on a school night.

Jared Tockstein:

And that's why the dollar movies were so important to me at that time in my life.

Jared Tockstein:

And I think I saw Backdraft like two or three times at the Dollar movie.

Jared Tockstein:

So, yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

So that's why when you initially suggested this, I was like, backdraft

Jared Tockstein:

to me represents a very specific point in my life, a specific memory for me.

Jared Tockstein:

And it was fun to revisit.

Katie:

Did you get those fond feelings when you re-watched it

Katie:

Did it take you back to those times?

Jared Tockstein:

Now, I hadn't watched back draft, um, probably, I mean,

Jared Tockstein:

I had it on VHS but it's probably been 25 years since I had watched

Jared Tockstein:

it before watching it for this show.

Katie:

same.

Jared Tockstein:

But there were things during the movie that certain

Jared Tockstein:

lines I would, that would, I would remember, , certain things that, that

Jared Tockstein:

did that I, that did stick in my brain.

Jared Tockstein:

Han Zimmer's score is, it's one of his early masterpieces.

Jared Tockstein:

It was also used for years on Iron Chef

Jared Tockstein:

that the show.

Jared Tockstein:

And that kind of ruined it for me because I started associating it with

Jared Tockstein:

the Iron Chef.

Jared Tockstein:

But, you know, revisiting it in this film after so many

Jared Tockstein:

years, it's really a great score.

Jared Tockstein:

, the soundtrack is very memorable.

Katie:

you

Katie:

put Han Zimmer on it and it's gonna be golden.

Katie:

I think

Katie:

I am a big fan.

Jared Tockstein:

And this was the fir and I like Han Zimmer, to this day.

Jared Tockstein:

But this, I think Backdraft was the first time I ever kind of stood up and

Jared Tockstein:

took notice of, well, who did the music

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared Tockstein:

Han Zimmer doesn't ring a bell, , of course he would go on to

Jared Tockstein:

do many, many other famous projects and very talented, very talented person.

Katie:

Agreed.

Katie:

I like your stories about Kurt from his earlier work.

Katie:

That's awesome.

Katie:

Do you have any specific thoughts about Patrick Swayze or favorite roles of his?

Jared Tockstein:

For me, Patrick Swayze, , I guess my favorites roles

Jared Tockstein:

of his are point, break and ghost.

Katie:

Oh, really?

Katie:

Okay.

Katie:

That's,

Jared Tockstein:

ghost.

Jared Tockstein:

The ladies loved ghost.

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

So you were like, yeah, sure.

Katie:

I'll go to that

Katie:

movie with you

Jared Tockstein:

it's, it's a movie that it's kind of scary and so they,

Jared Tockstein:

they want to grab your arm or hold your hand and it's also very emotional

Jared Tockstein:

at the end, so they're crying.

Jared Tockstein:

So it's a perfect time to put your arm and comfort him.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, so yeah, ghost

Katie:

I got you

Jared Tockstein:

ghost was my friend.

Katie:

That's awesome.

Katie:

I love it.

Katie:

Okay, Okay, well, we're finally gonna get into Backdraft,

Jared Tockstein:

Here we go.

Jared Tockstein:

Are you still with us?

Jared Tockstein:

I

Jared Tockstein:

hope

Katie:

I know.

Katie:

It's usually about half and half,

Jared Tockstein:

the setup.

Jared Tockstein:

I love that.

Jared Tockstein:

I, I, that was so fun.

Katie:

I like anything that makes me feel younger,

Katie:

The times of your.

Katie:

So Backdraft was released on May 24th, 1994, and it was rated R It was

Katie:

really long, actually for the time.

Katie:

It was two hours and 17 minutes.

Katie:

The I M D B rating is only a 6.7.

Katie:

I mean, that's pretty good, but I guess for some reason I

Katie:

thought it would've been higher.

Katie:

Because the director is the famous Ron Howard Academy Award-winning filmmaker,

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, Ron, Ronnie Howard,

Katie:

The writers are Gregory Widen, who is also known for the

Katie:

Prophecy Highlander, both backdrops.

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

There was a 2019 sequel.

Katie:

I think it might have been straight to video.

Katie:

And

Jared Tockstein:

I've watched.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

Did you really?

Katie:

I didn't.

Katie:

Would you recommend it?

Katie:

That's a no.

Katie:

Yeah, that's That's a no.

Katie:

Gregory also, did an episode of Tales from the Crypt TV series.

Katie:

Do you remember that?

Katie:

TV

Jared Tockstein:

Oh yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

I remember Tales from the Crypt.

Katie:

As we already talked about, Han Zimmer did the score for this.

Katie:

Now this is a star studded cast, so , if you haven't seen Backdraft

Katie:

in a while, revisit it and you'll be pleased because we have Kurt Russell

Katie:

as Steven McCaffrey, one of the two brothers, and then William Baldwin, a

Katie:

k a Billy Baldwin as Brian, the younger brother, who in my opinion, is by far

Katie:

the best looking Baldwin brother Billy.

Katie:

William Billy.

Katie:

Anybody else with me on that?

Jared Tockstein:

He's a handsome man.

Katie:

He's very handsome.

Katie:

And then we have one of my favorites, Robert De Niro.

Katie:

He's tied for me, , with my other number one.

Katie:

He plays Donald Rim, Gale, , the investigator Donald Sutherland,

Katie:

who's great in everything he does.

Katie:

He's hardly in this movie, but he's one of the top build.

Katie:

, and he plays, the prisoner name is Ronald, so

Katie:

Donald is playing Ronald.

Katie:

And then we have a separate Donald in the movie.

Katie:

It's kind of confusing.

Katie:

, Jennifer, Jason Lee, she plays Jennifer who works for the Politician Swayze

Katie:

and the love interest of Brian Scott.

Katie:

Glenn as John a K a X.

Katie:

He's referred to as Ax a lot in the movie.

Katie:

Rebecca Des Monet plays the ex-wife, or soon-to-be ex-wife of Steven.

Katie:

Uh, Jason Kedrick, who's very young in this.

Katie:

He plays one of the other probationary, recruits he's also a recent grad of

Katie:

the Academy, and his name is Tim.

Katie:

In the movie, j t Walsh plays the politician, , the Alderman or Mayor,

Katie:

oral candidate, uh, Martin s Suza.

Katie:

Tony maus, senior as the Chief, and Jack McGee as Schmidt.

Katie:

He is in this movie, the heavyset guy

Katie:

that drives the truck, and he's the Waterman or the Hoseman.

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

He's an awesome character actor.

Katie:

, he was the sheriff in Basic Instinct if you

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Katie:

And then he played George Ward in the Fighter.

Katie:

He's got a really extensive career.

Katie:

So you guys will probably, , recognize Jack McGee in this movie as well.

Katie:

The description of Backdraft is as a child, Brian McCafferty

Katie:

watched his firefighter father die.

Katie:

Years later, he joins his brother Steven in the force by becoming

Katie:

a rookie Chicago firefighter.

Katie:

There's a history of conflict between the two brothers that

Katie:

heats up when working together.

Katie:

A series of suspicious controlled fires are set, each made to kill a

Katie:

specific person, and then after becoming frightened in a fire, Brian moves into the

Katie:

department's Arson investigation office.

Katie:

He ends up getting a lesson on what it means to be a fireman.

Katie:

It

Jared Tockstein:

He

Katie:

actually had some awards, , three Oscars,

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

Best effects, sound effects, editing and best effects in the

Katie:

video effects and best sound.

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

, Katie:

also like ome for the visual effects I'm very glad that the

, Katie:

effects are real and we'll, we'll kind of talk about the effects.

, Katie:

It's not c g i fire and I think that's why they're so good.

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Katie:

Han Zimmer did win, uh, b m I film music win for him.

Katie:

So Han Zimmer's to your point about him being great.

Katie:

So M t v movie awards, I don't know when that ended, but I remember

Katie:

always liking to watch the M t

Jared Tockstein:

I think they, they're still going on.

Katie:

Oh, are they?

Katie:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

they?

Jared Tockstein:

still do 'em.

Katie:

Well, back in the day, it, they were kind of a bigger deal and

Katie:

so there was a nomination for both Best movie and best

Katie:

action sequence for back draft.

Jared Tockstein:

Nice.

Katie:

it was a blockbuster in that it grossed 152.4

Katie:

million on a 40 million budget.

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

Definitely made 'em a profit.

Katie:

Yes, just a little bit.

Katie:

I'm actually kind of surprised that the budget was not more

Katie:

just given all of the effects and the star studded cast, . So what

Katie:

are your overall impressions?

Katie:

Rewatching the movie

Jared Tockstein:

The things I enjoyed about it were, Kurt Russell is, you

Jared Tockstein:

know, he's got charisma to spare and he's really, he's good in this movie.

Jared Tockstein:

, Billy Baldwin is, he's okay.

Jared Tockstein:

For me, I think my, my favorite part of the movie after rewatching

Jared Tockstein:

it is, is Robert De Niro.

Jared Tockstein:

I think this is peak 1990s, Robert De Niro.

Jared Tockstein:

This is after, , Goodfellas and Cape Fear and before Casino, but.

Jared Tockstein:

He, um, you know, these days he's maybe is a bit into self parody, but back

Jared Tockstein:

then, I guess he was in his late forties.

Jared Tockstein:

He was really, he, he just, he elevates the, he brings a realism to

Jared Tockstein:

it that maybe in other parts of the film, , especially some of the stuff

Jared Tockstein:

with Baldwin, , it feels, it felt to me a little I dunno, actory like fake,

Katie:

Agreed.

Jared Tockstein:

But when Robert De Niro , is talking about.

Jared Tockstein:

You know, it's just the little things that he does.

Jared Tockstein:

, he's always, , he's smoking or he's doing business with his hands and the way he

Jared Tockstein:

talks to people, it, it feels very, it doesn't feel like he's reading a script.

Jared Tockstein:

It feels very natural and I buy that he is a real person, , in this role.

Jared Tockstein:

That's really kind of what I focused in on, on my rewatch was like, I, I, I'd

Jared Tockstein:

remembered that De Niro was in this, but I was surprised by how good he was in this.

Jared Tockstein:

And he is not in it a ton,

Jared Tockstein:

but when he is, he's just, he's fascinating to watch, I think.

Katie:

I agree with you.

Katie:

That he elevates anything he's in and that's, that's his brilliance.

Katie:

That's the brilliance of a, an actor of his caliber is that it makes it feel real.

Katie:

We get a fantastic, he's kind of famous for some of his yelling scenes.

Katie:

Uh, Robert 10 Niro Yell, and we get one of those in this movie also.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes, he does.

Jared Tockstein:

He does break out his yell.

Jared Tockstein:

I can't remember specific.

Jared Tockstein:

I think he's yelling at the Baldwin, isn't he?

Katie:

It's someone else, it's not Baldwin, but Baldwin overhears him.

Jared Tockstein:

That's right.

Jared Tockstein:

, I loved De Niro.

Jared Tockstein:

Now I gotta say Donald Sutherland.

Jared Tockstein:

I thought, and , this could almost be a trope of the time.

Jared Tockstein:

Remember we are just about a year or so out from Silence of the Lambs,

Katie:

Oh,

Katie:

maniacal,

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah, he's the evil mastermind who's locked away, and I

Jared Tockstein:

thought, on the rewatch, I thought his initial scene with De Niro was

Jared Tockstein:

a bit, maybe comic book villain,

Katie:

Mm

Jared Tockstein:

like just sort of the way he was.

Jared Tockstein:

He's like, he's got these ticks and he's always, you know, shaking.

Jared Tockstein:

And, he was like, oh, hey, it's my shadow.

Jared Tockstein:

It's my shadow at the, and I think he's better in the second scene

Jared Tockstein:

With William Baldwin.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

When they're just, they're at the table and he's a little more subdued

Jared Tockstein:

and he's playing it a little more, I don't know, sinister or realistic.

Jared Tockstein:

And, so th that's sort of my thoughts on.

Jared Tockstein:

It seems to me, I don't know if it was a trope of cinema of that time, but once

Jared Tockstein:

Handleable Lecter came out, everybody wanted to have their version of that.

Katie:

I think that's a good point that you bring up.

Katie:

I enjoyed it because it was our introduction to his character.

Katie:

I didn't mind it being overdone, but now that you point like it is

Katie:

similar to the Silence of the Lambs,

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

And it, it, it's hard for me to believe that wasn't an influence

Katie:

it's a good point.

Jared Tockstein:

on that scene.

Jared Tockstein:

So Jennifer, Jason Lee, there's something I picked up while watching this movie,

Jared Tockstein:

and it's something that bothered me back in the day, but it's only now

Jared Tockstein:

that I realized why it bothered me.

Jared Tockstein:

Almost all of Jennifer, Jason Lee's lines are dubbed, it's.

Jared Tockstein:

It's done with ADR in

Katie:

I didn't notice that.

Katie:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

And, and I always thought as a younger person watching this, she

Jared Tockstein:

sounded like she was reading a lot.

Jared Tockstein:

Like, what are you doing, Brian?

Jared Tockstein:

Why?

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, and I was like, why does she sound like that?

Jared Tockstein:

But listening to it with my old ears, these days, I was like, holy cow,

Jared Tockstein:

all this dialogue is very clean.

Jared Tockstein:

It was not recorded on the set.

Jared Tockstein:

And she was standing in a sound booth reading these lines off of a script and.

Katie:

I wonder why.

Jared Tockstein:

I don't, I

Katie:

you have any?

Jared Tockstein:

I think because a lot of her scenes, they're outside

Jared Tockstein:

and it's very difficult, to capture production audio, in an

Jared Tockstein:

environment where there's so much stuff going on, especially if you've

Jared Tockstein:

got big trucks, , all around you.

Jared Tockstein:

I don't know if she's just not because there's a d r throughout the movie and

Jared Tockstein:

it didn't bother me , with Baldwin or Kurt Russell, but I think some

Jared Tockstein:

people are better at it than others.

Jared Tockstein:

I imagine it's hard to create a performance if you're standing

Jared Tockstein:

in a sound booth just with a mic, like trying to match what you

Jared Tockstein:

are saying on the movie screen.

Katie:

recreate the scene.

Katie:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

And I think that's something that Kurt Russell is very good at.

Jared Tockstein:

William Baldwin seems to be very good at it, but maybe some people aren't,

Jared Tockstein:

just aren't very comfortable doing that.

Jared Tockstein:

And that, I think that comes across to me in, , some of her line delivery.

Jared Tockstein:

But , then again, I'm almost a hundred percent sure l most

Jared Tockstein:

of her dialogue was dubbed.

Jared Tockstein:

Of course, there could be someone out there that knows better than

Jared Tockstein:

me, and I could be totally wrong,

Katie:

Well, , I think that tracks probably, I didn't really note that

Katie:

much about her other than this seems like a departure from her typical role,

Katie:

She's more usually known for dramas and really broody

Katie:

things where an action movie is different.

Katie:

I guess

Katie:

Her role is different than her typical in this movie.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes,

Katie:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

How about you?

Katie:

Well, I was, so, I didn't really remember a lot from it other than,

Katie:

the first time that we're introduced to Steven, it's that famous scene.

Katie:

He emerges from the shadows of the fiery building, rescuing the person.

Katie:

And that's Steven that tells us everything we need to know about him.

Katie:

But the opening scene, I really enjoyed the opening scene, which is set in 1971.

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

So we see how the father dies

Katie:

and the

Jared Tockstein:

Also played by Kurt.

Katie:

Played by Kurt and I literally wrote down, damn, he's hot.

Katie:

He was so hot.

Katie:

The way that they have him played is the father.

Katie:

He is got like a seventies mustache, but

Katie:

like not in a gross way.

Katie:

And like

Jared Tockstein:

He also.

Jared Tockstein:

I think he lays on the, the Chicago a little more thick.

Jared Tockstein:

Hey, uh, how you doing down there, Brian?

Jared Tockstein:

Come on, Brian, let's go do this.

Katie:

I love it.

Katie:

Chicago is my favorite American city.

Katie:

So

Katie:

anything set in Chicago, I'm a big fan of.

Katie:

I, yeah,

Katie:

and all, it's everybody, all their names, they're all very Irish

Katie:

like this, this whole crew.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Katie:

but yeah, so we see him, I'm like, God, who Kurt looks so good in this movie.

Katie:

And then later, so he is playing the dad and unfortunately Brian

Katie:

goes on a call with his dad as an seven, eight year old and witnesses

Katie:

father Die in an explosion in 1971, and then it cuts to 20 years later.

Katie:

And that's the rest of the movie.

Katie:

Kurt in both roles as the father and as Steven is smoking

Katie:

in this movie, so l I know,

Katie:

I'm so,

Jared Tockstein:

a,

Jared Tockstein:

he is a

Katie:

deep.

Jared Tockstein:

man.

Katie:

he

Katie:

looks really good.

Jared Tockstein:

I also love, I, I liked it back when I first

Jared Tockstein:

saw it, and I like it now.

Jared Tockstein:

The way he swears the way he drops f bombs , and just

Jared Tockstein:

the way he uses profanity.

Jared Tockstein:

, it's hard to explain, but stay right back inside me, Brian.

Katie:

I wrote that down in my notes as well, because I took note.

Katie:

I thought it was a bravo moment

Katie:

for Kurt the way, , so he's trying to protect his little brother.

Katie:

He, right.

Katie:

Like he feels this fatherly nature about him.

Katie:

And so he's trying to keep his little brother close because I think he

Katie:

realizes that his brother's not this, he's not really cut out for this

Jared Tockstein:

he he does see his brothers a bit of an F up.

Katie:

Yes.

Katie:

I mean, and he's had many failed careers and the brother tries to get on a

Katie:

different engine, a different station.

Katie:

But then Steven, the older brother, obviously, he's like, no, I need him

Katie:

close to me to watch out for him.

Katie:

So they end up being in the same station, their first call that they go on.

Katie:

Brian doesn't listen to Steven.

Katie:

And afterwards he says, in the best, it's one of the best yell scenes ever.

Katie:

I think he, he says, I told you to stay right The fuck beside me.

Katie:

But the way he delivers it is perfection.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

I really enjoyed that, that, scene.

Katie:

because he is legitimately scared for his brother, like he doesn't want him to die.

Jared Tockstein:

that's true.

Jared Tockstein:

And he does a great job of, of playing up.

Jared Tockstein:

His, because he's kind of annoyed by his little brother, but also he does have

Jared Tockstein:

that brotherly instinct that kicks in but he's not afraid to tell him, Hey, you

Jared Tockstein:

know, you're not cut out for this, you know, go back to, you know, whatever.

Jared Tockstein:

Because he makes a joke about it in the movie.

Jared Tockstein:

He's like, well, what are we doing this week, Brian?

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, what, what career did you pick?

Jared Tockstein:

But then, of course we see Steven has his own demons.

Jared Tockstein:

He's not a perfect guy

Jared Tockstein:

despite the fact that he's, and I tell you, one of my favorite scenes

Jared Tockstein:

in this movie with Kurt Russell, it's has nothing to do with firefighting.

Jared Tockstein:

It's a scene I believed was almost entirely improvd.

Jared Tockstein:

And it's when he's with his, , the actor who plays his son and they're

Jared Tockstein:

making a.

Jared Tockstein:

Breakfast.

Jared Tockstein:

There's something about that scene I think that, that Ron Howard just

Jared Tockstein:

set up the camera and said, okay, why don't you guys just mess around?

Jared Tockstein:

Cuz Kurt's like, what are you doing there?

Jared Tockstein:

He goes, I'm gonna put grape jelly in the eggs.

Jared Tockstein:

He goes, what?

Jared Tockstein:

You know, put jelly.

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, you gonna take the shells out?

Jared Tockstein:

No, no.

Jared Tockstein:

It's part of the formula.

Jared Tockstein:

I, that all just rang very, like, natural and true to me.

Jared Tockstein:

And, it shows me because, I know that, , in real life, Kurt Russell is a father

Jared Tockstein:

and a grandfather and it gave me a glimpse into what I would like to believe

Jared Tockstein:

he's like in real life, , just sort of like, Hey, what are you doing there?

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, oh, you sure you want to?

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Um,

Katie:

not get outta here with that business.

Katie:

That's not how you make eggs, but

Jared Tockstein:

no, no.

Katie:

just is like,

Jared Tockstein:

Exactly.

Jared Tockstein:

He's, he's sort of like, oh, okay, well sure I'll eat eggs with grape

Jared Tockstein:

jelly mixed in with them, I guess.

Jared Tockstein:

But , that stood out to me as one of my favorite scenes in the movie.

Jared Tockstein:

And of course it's right before his wife tells him like, Hey, don't

Jared Tockstein:

get used to this cuz you can't just be coming around here all the time.

Katie:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

And it's, uh, it's kind of a sad in that way, but, uh, but I, I

Jared Tockstein:

definitely wanted to mention it cuz it was one of my favorite just little scenes.

Katie:

Yeah, I, those little touches are very helpful.

Katie:

I mean, Ron Howard knows what he's doing, right?

Jared Tockstein:

I would think so.

Jared Tockstein:

But I don't, I don't think it's a perfect movie.

Katie:

Oh, no, no.

Katie:

Do tell.

Katie:

No, I ob it

Katie:

only got a 6.7 or something.

Katie:

Yeah.

Katie:

So I don't think

Katie:

everyone loved it.

Jared Tockstein:

and it's not, this is stuff that I wouldn't have

Jared Tockstein:

necessarily, that I didn't really think.

Jared Tockstein:

Watching it as a 16 year old, but , being older and, I can now

Jared Tockstein:

the stuff, all of the nitty gritty stuff with the firemen and the fire,

Jared Tockstein:

that stuff was fascinating to me.

Jared Tockstein:

Just seeing them get ready and, you know, get on the truck , and go to a fire.

Jared Tockstein:

That was some of my favorite stuff in the film.

Katie:

Okay we are back Everyone for those of you hopefully this

Katie:

will seem seamless to those of you listening or watching but Katie had

Katie:

a nice little power outage in her neighborhood and thankfully it was

Katie:

restored pretty quickly but we're back now apologies Jared Thank you for

Katie:

that would happen during the middle

Jared Tockstein:

What's, do you have bad weather out in Denver?

Jared Tockstein:

What's going on?

Katie:

No I don't think so

Jared Tockstein:

It's actually about the storm here in Florida.

Jared Tockstein:

So, if I go away, you'll know why

Katie:

Yes those things do happen from time to time and just never happen to

Katie:

be podcasting During a power outage but now I can add that to the list of things

Katie:

that has happened apologies for that

Jared Tockstein:

It's okay.

Katie:

We were talking about Backdraft and do you remember what oh what's his name

Jared Tockstein:

It's, chewy.

Jared Tockstein:

Like Chewbacca?

Katie:

Oh my

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Katie:

kind of looks like Chewbacca

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

He's colored like him.

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Get down buddy.

Katie:

Oh my God he's so cute

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, we love him.

Jared Tockstein:

He's a pain in the butt, but we love him.

Katie:

Yeah Aren't they all So you were probably talking to no one for a while

Katie:

Do you remember where you were saying

Jared Tockstein:

I don't know.

Jared Tockstein:

I do know that I kept talking and I saw you had frozen and I kept talking.

Jared Tockstein:

I was like, Katie, Katie, um,

Jared Tockstein:

, Katie: Well at first

Jared Tockstein:

I, and.

Katie:

internet had gone out so I went to restart my router and then

Katie:

I was like wait the lights aren't working all of the electricity was out

Jared Tockstein:

You heard me talking about the scene

Jared Tockstein:

in the kitchen with his son.

Katie:

Yes

Jared Tockstein:

We could just pick it up from there

Katie:

What did you think about the fact that all of the firefighters smoke

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, that, that is one of the coolest scenes in the movie is

Jared Tockstein:

like when the guys, after they put the fire out are coughing and then they light

Jared Tockstein:

up a cigarette and then they're like, oh, and it's like they can breathe again

Jared Tockstein:

now that they're smoking cigarettes.

Katie:

It was an interesting touch I don't know if that's real but I

Katie:

obviously it's just showing like also they very inconsistently wear

Katie:

masks so they're just inhaling

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Katie:

and then they smoke in

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Katie:

the rubble like they can finally relax I mean I guess it's

Jared Tockstein:

Well,

Katie:

situation And so then they smoke to calm down but it's

Jared Tockstein:

yes,

Katie:

of funny

Jared Tockstein:

now I would, I think that the smoking to me makes sense.

Jared Tockstein:

But I did read, some of what, like real firefighters thought of the

Jared Tockstein:

movie and one of the things they had a problem with is that like Kurt Russell,

Jared Tockstein:

you know, sees the mask as weakness.

Jared Tockstein:

know, he's like, he's telling people to hold their breath and charge in

Jared Tockstein:

there and they're like, that would never, you would never do that.

Jared Tockstein:

That is just insane.

Jared Tockstein:

So, , I'm sure there were liberties, , taken to make, Stephen appear

Jared Tockstein:

more, heroic and, you know, awesome.

Katie:

The elevator scene I think I was reading in a similar

Katie:

way that use the elevator in a building that had a fire in it

Jared Tockstein:

oh yeah, that's,

Katie:

in this movie Yeah

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

That totally makes sense.

Jared Tockstein:

I did hear a lot of criticism of this movie and I think this

Jared Tockstein:

is very much artistic license.

Jared Tockstein:

, the movie always talks about the fire being like a demonn that's a living,

Jared Tockstein:

they call it the dragon or something.

Jared Tockstein:

And a lot of fire.

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

And a lot of firefighters.

Jared Tockstein:

Said that, , they found that to be rather, cheesy, that they don't, that a

Jared Tockstein:

lot of them did not see it as a living, breathing thing, which , they certainly

Jared Tockstein:

try to make it like that in this film.

Jared Tockstein:

Like, you know, you can't let the fire know that you're scared of it.

Jared Tockstein:

And a lot of them were very critical of that.

Jared Tockstein:

Kind of like, well, look, the, the fire doesn't know anything

Jared Tockstein:

cuz the fire's not alive.

Jared Tockstein:

, it's a thing.

Jared Tockstein:

We're trying to, now you can, they did say you, you can know things about a

Jared Tockstein:

fire, the way a fire will behave, , in environments and things like that.

Jared Tockstein:

But as far as the fire being some kind of dragon or demonn, who's, who wants to

Jared Tockstein:

know if you're scared of it, that they said that's a little, , Hollywood there,

Katie:

Yeah I can see

Jared Tockstein:

I thought watching the movie that stuff

Jared Tockstein:

was a little bit cringey.

Jared Tockstein:

Especially, it's like you can't show it.

Jared Tockstein:

You're afraid of it, and which I probably thought was cool as a youngster,

Jared Tockstein:

but today it's like, eh, maybe not.

Katie:

I agree with you I guess the story arc happens so it's a long movie and I

Katie:

have no problem with a long movie if the story warrants it But in this case I do

Katie:

feel like they could have tightened it up a bit but the end sequence there's

Katie:

kind of like a series of end sequences

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Katie:

to your point about the the monster the animal we do see how differing

Katie:

the brothers are that Steven is the older brother he's the brave one he's

Katie:

the known as the hero and he doesn't Hesitate he will go in without which

Katie:

is actually a fault He will go into a situation without backup and then that

Katie:

gets people hurt and killed but it also saves lives So he you know I can

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

of it Whereas Brian I guess I don't really buy So the idea is that

Katie:

it's a little too real for him first few experiences And so then he goes to

Katie:

work with the investigator then spoiler alert after his brother dies and he

Katie:

saves him he so there's a sequence where it's like too much to cover Kurt

Katie:

Russell's character fights with who we find out is the true arsonist which is

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

Ax.

Katie:

Who by the way that actor perpetually looks like he's 55 years old

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

Scott Glenn.

Katie:

Yeah Like

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Katie:

same age always

Jared Tockstein:

I agree.

Katie:

It wasn't a menacing reason It was just that these crooked

Katie:

politicians were getting his friends killed for money And so then he's

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Katie:

controlled fires They find out about it There's a whole standoff there's

Katie:

a scene where and Stephen fall don't see on screen that acts dies There's it's

Katie:

kind of we're left to kind of wonder but Steven is Severely injured And in order

Katie:

for him to get rescued his little brother who's been afraid of the fire now has to

Katie:

conquer his fears and he does it And so then we get an ending scene where he steps

Katie:

into Steven's shoes helps the new probies He's a firefighter He's not pushing

Katie:

paper any longer He's he's an active firefighter so he kind of comes circle

Katie:

I mean that that is not very realistic but it's very much a Ron Howard movie

Jared Tockstein:

I thought the, , and I don't know if , this kind of thing.

Jared Tockstein:

Is a trope of that time, but it feels to me like it is, , where

Jared Tockstein:

the villain of the piece is.

Jared Tockstein:

This.

Jared Tockstein:

I don't really like how it turned into a corporate espionage.

Jared Tockstein:

Type of movie.

Jared Tockstein:

, and it feels like another one of my favorite movies from this time period

Jared Tockstein:

is The Fugitive, , with Harrison Ford.

Jared Tockstein:

That also, I think it's a little better done in the Fugitive, but it, it seems

Jared Tockstein:

like movies of this time, a lot of the enemies ended up being these faceless,

Jared Tockstein:

you know, corporate overlords who were trying to do something nefarious.

Katie:

Mm-hmm

Jared Tockstein:

For this movie, I don't know, I, I think maybe it got down a

Jared Tockstein:

little bit too much in the weeds on this stuff because it turned into like

Jared Tockstein:

a detective story and, I'm not a hundred percent sold that it really worked.

Jared Tockstein:

It's fine for the story they were telling, but, you know, watching it

Jared Tockstein:

with today's eyes, I just wish maybe we were doing a little more of the,

Jared Tockstein:

the nitty gritty of the firefighting and what their lives are like.

Jared Tockstein:

Instead of sort of throwing in this subplot of this

Jared Tockstein:

detective story on top of it

Katie:

I agree it.

Katie:

is it's like almost too much to even quickly the the movie there's so much it

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Katie:

didn't need to be there

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

it's more complicated that it's not just the arsonist Like Donald

Katie:

Sutherland who just gets a kick out of he likes fire and he likes the

Katie:

destruction of it whereas that's not what this was And the Donald Sutherland

Katie:

character helps Brian connect the dots that based on the back draft nature of

Katie:

these Arsons that it's very controlled

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

not a lot of destruction It's just the one person is hit And so lies

Katie:

oh well it must be someone who knows what they're doing a k f firefighter

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

And then there's the whole he thinks his brother did it and

Katie:

then the brothers figure it out at the same time is just a lot to it

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

And they're, saying to Scott, Glenn's character, you set me up and it's,

Jared Tockstein:

and I didn't buy for a minute, even when I was 16 and saw this in the theater,

Jared Tockstein:

that Kurt Russell was the bad guy.

Jared Tockstein:

Like that.

Jared Tockstein:

That just, I was like, I don't, I'm not buying this at all.

Jared Tockstein:

So if that's what the movie was trying to make me think that didn't land.

Jared Tockstein:

But I, I do think that the arson scenes, allowed us to spend more

Jared Tockstein:

time with, Robert De Niro, which was, it was always cool watching the

Jared Tockstein:

gears turn in his head as he's trying to figure out, why this happened.

Jared Tockstein:

And I'm not even against them making this movie like a crime

Jared Tockstein:

movie, which ultimately it is.

Jared Tockstein:

Because I think it's interesting that this person.

Jared Tockstein:

I think I, what I'm saying is I would love to see a movie about Robert De Niro

Jared Tockstein:

trying to figure out why, if they're just chasing like a crazy arsonist, like

Jared Tockstein:

maybe Robert De Niro's, a prequel with Robert De Niro and Donald Sutherland,

Jared Tockstein:

like how the, because they kind of told.

Jared Tockstein:

they told his story in the movie and he, he's responsible for the

Jared Tockstein:

burns all over de Niro's body.

Jared Tockstein:

That to me sounded kind of super interesting.

Katie:

Janeiro's character saves criminal right Isn't that how he got the burns

Jared Tockstein:

I think it wasn't it Ronald that gave him the burns

Jared Tockstein:

because they, he said it because the.

Jared Tockstein:

The, the ash or whatever left his shadow.

Jared Tockstein:

That's why he called him his shadow because it left Robert de Niro's an

Jared Tockstein:

imprint of his shadow on the wall because he was engulfed in flames.

Jared Tockstein:

That's all to say that I just wish it was a little, it, I think it could have

Jared Tockstein:

been a little simpler and scaled down.

Jared Tockstein:

Like you said, it's hard to even explain what in the end is all this is about

Katie:

much

Jared Tockstein:

and, and so, and some, somehow Swayze is, you know, he's involved

Jared Tockstein:

in this and you think he's gonna be taken down but you don't see that happen.

Jared Tockstein:

We go from him going, oh, you'll have to talk to my attorneys,

Jared Tockstein:

and then we go to the funeral.

Katie:

Mm-hmm

Jared Tockstein:

I think it got a little too ambitious.

Katie:

a better way of putting it I was gonna ask you actually about and

Katie:

I think this was purposefully done but We see the funeral shortly after

Katie:

the ambulance ride So Kurt Russell's character's not dead He's in an ambulance

Katie:

but then he dies in the ambulance and they're trying to revive him And we

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

to bagpipes and uh funeral procession but because we don't actually

Katie:

see Scott Glenn's character die it's sort of assumed so I think they were

Katie:

trying to make us think there was hope the funeral was for Acts and not Steven

Katie:

that's it's possibly Steven They were able to revive him But then we learn as we

Katie:

continue to watch the funeral scene that the funerals actually for both of them

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

Ax have a combined funeral because Steven asks Brian not to

Katie:

make it known that the arsonist was X

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

Which I thought, which I think, then I wonder if is Ax, he's like

Jared Tockstein:

the missing piece of the puzzle.

Jared Tockstein:

, I don't know if without ax if you could connect, , Swayze to the

Jared Tockstein:

events of what happened and maybe you can't and maybe they don't get to.

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, even in the sequel doesn't go into this at all.

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, it's not even

Katie:

is it

Jared Tockstein:

they, um, the.

Katie:

actors obviously but

Jared Tockstein:

Billy Baldwin comes back as, does do Donald Sutherland.

Katie:

that's kind of

Jared Tockstein:

Um,

Katie:

actually

Jared Tockstein:

The main character is Kurt Russell's son, who is

Jared Tockstein:

now, , does the job that Robert De Niro did in the first movie.

Jared Tockstein:

He's an investigator.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, it sounds way more cool than it actually is

Jared Tockstein:

, Katie: I was gonna say this sounds not

Jared Tockstein:

it's.

Jared Tockstein:

Well, I noticed when I was watching it on two B, cuz that's

Jared Tockstein:

the way I watched Backdraft.

Jared Tockstein:

And interestingly enough, on the day we're recording this, there's

Jared Tockstein:

only one day left to watch back draft and Backdraft two on two B

Jared Tockstein:

. Katie: Wow

Jared Tockstein:

So, uh, and so I wa I started watching the sequel just

Jared Tockstein:

because, I mean, it was there and I was like, oh, well, we'll see what they did.

Jared Tockstein:

It was a maid for.

Jared Tockstein:

Video production, it was never exhibited theatrically.

Jared Tockstein:

And you can tell that it has a kind of a TV feel.

Jared Tockstein:

The guy who plays Kurt Russell's son is pretty good.

Jared Tockstein:

But Billy Baldwin.

Jared Tockstein:

Okay, so obviously this is 30 years later, he, , He's almost indistinguishable now

Jared Tockstein:

from Alec in appearance and in voice.

Katie:

Okay so he is

Jared Tockstein:

It's,

Katie:

the best looking brother now

Jared Tockstein:

no, I thought when I was watching it, I was like, holy crap.

Jared Tockstein:

He just turned into Alec.

Jared Tockstein:

That's what happened to him.

Jared Tockstein:

And it's not a great movie.

Jared Tockstein:

It's certainly not as good as Backdraft.

Jared Tockstein:

And you could tell they're working from a smaller budget.

Jared Tockstein:

And, Kurt Russell only appears in a photograph, so, no flashbacks

Jared Tockstein:

with him or anything, so you're not really missing anything.

Jared Tockstein:

But, the ending , is very impressive because , I just wonder if.

Jared Tockstein:

You have this gigantic procession in Chicago and I really love that

Jared Tockstein:

kind of stuff, like the pageantry with the guys and the kilts playing

Jared Tockstein:

the bagpipes and with the families walking behind the caskets And, I just

Jared Tockstein:

wonder if that's something that was.

Jared Tockstein:

Staged for the film.

Jared Tockstein:

Obviously it would probably be disrespectful to actually say, Hey, can we

Jared Tockstein:

film your funeral and put it in Backdraft?

Jared Tockstein:

But this being the early nineties, that's something that took, that's

Jared Tockstein:

not computer generated imagery.

Jared Tockstein:

Those are thousands of firemen in kilts playing bagpipes,

Jared Tockstein:

, parading down a Chicago street.

Jared Tockstein:

So that's not an insignificant thing to stage, I would imagine.

Katie:

Good point And yes there is something about a service member's Funeral

Katie:

with bagpipes or the horn there's just something about it and and it plays well

Katie:

in movies O obviously because it plays well in real life It's very emotional

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah, because these people, who do this job, they're,

Jared Tockstein:

kind of like, Heroes in that way, cuz I mean, none of us, they're none.

Jared Tockstein:

None of us are running into burning buildings and probably that's why I

Jared Tockstein:

say my favorite parts of the movie are sort of the ground level, , them in the

Jared Tockstein:

firehouse and they're getting a call.

Jared Tockstein:

And at the beginning of the movie, I thought it was well

Jared Tockstein:

done the flashback to 1971.

Jared Tockstein:

I thought all that stuff was great too, cuz it's just, it felt like you were,

Jared Tockstein:

you felt like you were kind of in on something and you were watching something

Jared Tockstein:

that you don't get to see as sort of a civilian, it's like these guys, they

Jared Tockstein:

sit around and goof off at the firehouse, but then when it comes, everybody's

Jared Tockstein:

grabbing their stuff and getting on the trucks and, it's really cool.

Katie:

I like that in movies as well The camaraderie between whether it's a

Katie:

military movie or a police or fire People

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

I also very much enjoy that I did read that the screenwriter Gregory he was

Katie:

actually a firefighter for a few years

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, wow.

Jared Tockstein:

Well, it makes sense.

Katie:

the the film is based on a death of a friend of his in an actual back draft

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, wow.

Katie:

so the

Jared Tockstein:

Goodness.

Katie:

they ma they Hollywood it up

Jared Tockstein:

At the end of the movie.

Jared Tockstein:

I like that they give , that little tagline, there are x

Jared Tockstein:

amount of men and women today serving actively as firefighters.

Jared Tockstein:

, which is, , it's a good way to sort of bring the movie back down to earth.

Jared Tockstein:

After we've got into, the political espionage and the big detective

Jared Tockstein:

story, it sort of brings it back to what the movie is about.

Jared Tockstein:

And that's the people who fight fires.

Katie:

Yes Agreed was just thinking to your point about what do they have

Katie:

on Swayze to arrest him because then after the funeral scene so there's

Katie:

this scene where Robert 10 Niro and Billy Baldwin go in and and have sway

Katie:

Zack arrested But it's like based on what if you can't say that Adcock

Katie:

I guess she risks her job to get confidential or or

Katie:

something that she's not,

Jared Tockstein:

that's true.

Katie:

So on her boss

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Jared Tockstein:

Maybe that put him away.

Jared Tockstein:

Well, we kind of have to assume that's what happened and you know,

Katie:

then so so that's his last as um part of the investigative office because

Katie:

he goes back to active duty I did think it was although it's very Hollywood

Katie:

did like the very end scene of them going on a call with the new the new

Jared Tockstein:

and he fixes his jacket.

Jared Tockstein:

. Katie: Yeah, he's, like

Jared Tockstein:

yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

he's Yeah.

Katie:

into his brother's shoes cuz it was a family drama There were a

Katie:

lot of themes actually now that we're talking through this It was too much

Katie:

crammed in one movie but was enjoyable

Jared Tockstein:

I think,

Jared Tockstein:

oh, I, I'm not sorry that I revisited it.

Jared Tockstein:

I think if it hadn't aimed so high as far as, like I said, this

Jared Tockstein:

espionage and detective story.

Jared Tockstein:

And, I think it could have been, , a great movie if you just keep it on the

Jared Tockstein:

ground level and hey, maybe we're dealing with just some psycho crook or something

Jared Tockstein:

and, , who's setting these things?

Jared Tockstein:

I don't think you needed to make it a bigger thing, but, um, You know,

Jared Tockstein:

it's, for me, it, I would say it mostly still held up, um, aside from

Jared Tockstein:

what, what I talked about earlier, some of the cringing year stuff.

Jared Tockstein:

But, um, I still enjoyed, I enjoyed revisiting it.

Katie:

it is I would recommend people give it a rewatch It's it is visually pleasing

Katie:

The effects I think are pretty good

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

There's some trivia here So I don't know if you noticed in the credits that

Katie:

of the actors Kurt Russell Kevin Casey Scott Glenn William Baldwin actually they

Katie:

did a lot of their own stunts So much so that the stunt coordinator listed them as

Katie:

stunt performers in the credits Did you

Jared Tockstein:

wow.

Jared Tockstein:

No, I didn't.

Jared Tockstein:

I didn't know that.

Jared Tockstein:

That is cool.

Jared Tockstein:

And I,

Katie:

prepare on the similar way Baldwin and Russell went to bootcamp

Jared Tockstein:

yeah.

Katie:

to learn the ropes and they slept in a Chicago

Katie:

firehouse for a month to prepare

Jared Tockstein:

they go on any calls

Katie:

I don't know I

Jared Tockstein:

I I would imagine that the insurance company would

Jared Tockstein:

maybe have a problem with that.

Katie:

Maybe they got to ride along but they had to stay in the

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Katie:

the beginning of movie little kid gets to go on a call and that's

Katie:

how he witnesses father's death So

Jared Tockstein:

yes.

Jared Tockstein:

Which I gotta say, . I do like the kind of the through line

Jared Tockstein:

of the Life Magazine picture,

Katie:

Mm

Jared Tockstein:

Of, Brian as a little kid.

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

I think that's just an interesting little slice of life.

Jared Tockstein:

Just having this kid who was once famous for being on this iconic magazine

Jared Tockstein:

cover and now he's grown up and.

Jared Tockstein:

Some people sort of hold it against him.

Jared Tockstein:

It's like, oh, hey look, it's the magazine guy, and that's some, and

Jared Tockstein:

that's something that maybe he, it's almost like a legacy he doesn't want

Jared Tockstein:

but comes to embrace in the end.

Jared Tockstein:

So,

Katie:

I like that

Jared Tockstein:

I think the whole Life magazine was a really cool touch.

Katie:

So were talking about the funeral and how many extras that must

Katie:

have taken to create that scene just

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah.

Katie:

the movie a lot of the extras were real Chicago

Katie:

firefighters that were in scenes

Jared Tockstein:

Oh yeah, that I would have no doubt about that, cuz

Jared Tockstein:

that would've been sort of an easy way to get a lot of people on board.

Jared Tockstein:

Like, Hey, we're shooting a movie.

Jared Tockstein:

You wanna show up in your uniform and.

Jared Tockstein:

I bet a lot of those guys got a kick out of it.

Katie:

So there's a few casting what ifs I don't know if you read about for example

Katie:

in an interesting twist of faith Brad Pitt actually wanted the role of Brian he ha

Katie:

he would've had to been released from his contract to play small role in Thelman

Katie:

Louise So Brad Pitt was in film on Louise

Jared Tockstein:

Yes.

Katie:

so they they swapped roles So

Jared Tockstein:

Oh,

Katie:

So originally Billy Baldwin was supposed to be Brad Pitt's character

Katie:

in Thelman Louise They kind of ended up switching roles I'm actually glad

Katie:

that it worked out the way it did because I think Brad Pit is famous

Katie:

for his thumb and Louise scenes

Jared Tockstein:

sure.

Jared Tockstein:

And well, I mean, but you turn that around, , Billy

Jared Tockstein:

Baldwin sort of disappeared.

Jared Tockstein:

. He did a couple of like thriller

Jared Tockstein:

really don't hear from him.

Jared Tockstein:

, as much anymore.

Jared Tockstein:

I was surprised, the Backdraft two was 2019 and he was in that.

Jared Tockstein:

I just thought, like when I was watching this, , Billy Baldwin, he was kind

Jared Tockstein:

of a, the it guy for, for a Bennett there in the nineties in Hollywood.

Jared Tockstein:

, and uh, then he just sort of, faded away.

Katie:

did I saw him in a short-lived drama series about it

Katie:

was a Sort of succession like a

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

rich powerful family like that And it was in the maybe I

Katie:

don't know 2015 ish I wanna say money

Katie:

that And anyway

Katie:

you're right Outside of that I don't really remember anything recently

Katie:

Another person that was considered speaking of the Baldwins for Brian was

Katie:

Alec considered For that role but he turned it down and he recommended his

Katie:

brother Billy That's I think how he ended

Jared Tockstein:

Well,

Jared Tockstein:

, Katie: role

Jared Tockstein:

you go.

Jared Tockstein:

seems to me that,

Jared Tockstein:

I think the age difference works because, Alec is a lot closer to Kurt.

Katie:

Yeah

Jared Tockstein:

In age.

Jared Tockstein:

I mean, there would only be a couple of years difference.

Jared Tockstein:

And the there, it looks like there's at least five or 10 years even between

Jared Tockstein:

Billy Baldwin and Kurt Russell.

Jared Tockstein:

I'm not sure how old Billy Baldwin is.

Jared Tockstein:

I guess I could use my magic box and find out.

Katie:

there well I guess in real life those two have like a 12

Katie:

year age difference but in the

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Katie:

we're shown the little boy Brian looks to be seven or eight and the

Katie:

brother looks to be like a A 13 ish maybe

Jared Tockstein:

He's a teenager.

Jared Tockstein:

Billy Baldwin is currently 60 years old,

Katie:

that yeah

Jared Tockstein:

so he would've been 28.

Katie:

That tracks kurt Russell was playing

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

I think that.

Katie:

younger than he actually is in

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Well, he could get away with it.

Katie:

Yeah he can he certainly can Yeah Can you tell that I very

Katie:

much liked watching him in this movie

Jared Tockstein:

No.

Jared Tockstein:

I had no idea

Katie:

you guys he looks really good in it some other actors that that

Katie:

tested for this in the role of Brian Keanu Reeves which I'm glad that I

Katie:

I can't really see that And Robert Downey Jr Who probably would've been

Katie:

really good I think Robert Downey Jr Would've been good in the Brian role

Jared Tockstein:

I could see that.

Jared Tockstein:

Absolutely.

Katie:

And then several others turned it down

Jared Tockstein:

okay.

Katie:

Johnny Depp Matt Dillon and Val Kilmer All four of those maybe

Katie:

they were like so hot at the time

Jared Tockstein:

Yeah, they were pretty big stars.

Jared Tockstein:

, I wouldn't say Billy Baldwin is the lead of this movie.

Katie:

No he's not

Jared Tockstein:

So I can understand like, you know, Tom Cruise, by

Jared Tockstein:

this time was a movie star, so I can understand why he wouldn't.

Jared Tockstein:

to take this role?

Jared Tockstein:

Val Kilmer was also very hot in the early nineties.

Jared Tockstein:

So yeah, that makes sense to me.

Katie:

Then the only other one that I could find who they considered Steven

Katie:

slash Bull his nickname I don't know if we talked about the fact that his

Katie:

nickname in the movie is Bull He's both

Jared Tockstein:

Bowl.

Katie:

Boll McCaffrey

Jared Tockstein:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

this Rolldown So originally I guess studio or Ron Howard wanted Dennis Wade

Jared Tockstein:

Well, I could totally see Dennis Qua in this role too.

Katie:

Same

Jared Tockstein:

It's something that's totally, him and Kurt

Jared Tockstein:

Russell are of a similar vintage

Jared Tockstein:

. Katie: Mm-hmm

Jared Tockstein:

And, , I could definitely see that.

Jared Tockstein:

but I'm glad that, that Kurt ended up doing it, obviously.

Katie:

Me too

Katie:

I agree I'm very glad Kurt Russell was in this movie now here's a

Katie:

little bit I didn't realize that there's a long running tradition

Katie:

with Ron Howard casting his brother

Jared Tockstein:

Clint, yes.

Katie:

in apparent I didn't know that was a thing that he did

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, yes,

Katie:

I did recognize him as the morgue guy The pathologist

Jared Tockstein:

yes.

Jared Tockstein:

I love Clint Howard.

Jared Tockstein:

I have some sort of weird fascination with Clint Howard.

Jared Tockstein:

I don't know why.

Jared Tockstein:

I just, he is cast in most all of his.

Jared Tockstein:

I think there was one he didn't do, but, every time I see Iran, Howard movie,

Jared Tockstein:

I'm always on the lookout for Clint.

Jared Tockstein:

Um, and.

Katie:

he's a very serviceable actor

Jared Tockstein:

Yes, absolutely.

Jared Tockstein:

He's great in Apollo 13.

Jared Tockstein:

He has a small role as one of the mission control guys, and he's really good.

Jared Tockstein:

I also follow him on Instagram.

Jared Tockstein:

and he, he, he's,

Katie:

or not funny things

Jared Tockstein:

He's bad shit.

Jared Tockstein:

Crazy

Jared Tockstein:

. Katie: Oh

Jared Tockstein:

But in, in a funny way, like he just, he'll walk around

Jared Tockstein:

and , he'll just showing weird signs or weird shops that he's in.

Jared Tockstein:

He's a very quirky guy but he's a lot of fun To follow.

Jared Tockstein:

, he's the reason that I'm so into him when he was a little boy, cuz he, him

Jared Tockstein:

and Ron have been acting for, decades when he was a little boy, he played an

Jared Tockstein:

alien on the original Star Trek TV show.

Katie:

Okay

Jared Tockstein:

And his name was Baylock and I was obsessed

Jared Tockstein:

and still am to some degree.

Jared Tockstein:

So, every year, my friend, he posts this happy birthday meme with a picture of

Jared Tockstein:

Clint Howard as Baylock and, my friend last year tagged Kurt Howard in it.

Jared Tockstein:

Happy birthday, Jared.

Jared Tockstein:

And he put this dumb picture.

Jared Tockstein:

And then Kurt Howard liked the . Clint Howard liked the birthday message . And I

Jared Tockstein:

was like, okay, well my life's complete.

Jared Tockstein:

You know, I feel like Clint Howard

Katie:

so many about famous people it's that's you are probably the

Katie:

life of the party at every party

Jared Tockstein:

No, I doubt it.

Jared Tockstein:

I try sometimes I just, it's just these things pop up in my

Jared Tockstein:

memory and I'm like, oh gosh.

Jared Tockstein:

I feel lucky that I've had some of the experiences I've had.

Jared Tockstein:

it hasn't been boring, but, um, but Clint Howard, Oh, geez.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, you know, I, I'll come on, uh, retro made and tell you all

Jared Tockstein:

about it when it's finished.

Jared Tockstein:

we'll do that if you will allow me to

Jared Tockstein:

. Katie: Not a chance No

Jared Tockstein:

Okay.

Jared Tockstein:

Gotcha.

Jared Tockstein:

. Oh, I don't know.

Jared Tockstein:

I'd probably, I don't have enough money to, for the lawsuits

Jared Tockstein:

that would follow probably

Katie:

That's awesome That's a really good point change the names

Katie:

I mean we barely scratched the surface it feels like because there is a lot

Katie:

to backdraft But we're gonna try and wrap it up now We could go on

Katie:

forever but we do have to return to the present day Do you have any closing

Katie:

thoughts about the movie or 1991

Jared Tockstein:

No, just, it was fun to go back and watch

Jared Tockstein:

it, with my middle-aged eyes.

Jared Tockstein:

, there I was surprised by how much stuff that I still remembered from,

Jared Tockstein:

not having seen it in so many years.

Jared Tockstein:

And, , great soundtrack from Han Zimmer that can, , you can play that

Jared Tockstein:

on its own and it's quite great.

Jared Tockstein:

And looking at it now, it's, , certainly not a perfect movie.

Jared Tockstein:

There's things in it that bug me, but, it was fun to revisit and my parting

Jared Tockstein:

advice is, uh, don't watch Backdraft too

Katie:

That's perfect That's perfect I love it Thank you so much Jared for

Katie:

joining me to cover this blockbuster action thriller some other genre too from

Jared Tockstein:

Yes, , I had a blast.

Jared Tockstein:

This is a fun show to do for sure.

Katie:

Thank you

Jared Tockstein:

It's way better, way more fun than Ryan

Katie:

I hope he listens to that specific piece

Jared Tockstein:

Oh, I'll make sure that he does

Katie:

make sure that he does it's fun actually speaking of the

Katie:

three of us just just spent some time covering Rocky too the latest

Jared Tockstein:

Yes,

Katie:

of one More Round

Jared Tockstein:

absolutely.

Jared Tockstein:

Very fun.

Katie:

what else do you have going on You have tell us where people can find you

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, well.

Jared Tockstein:

If, uh, you want to check out our website, we have a website

Jared Tockstein:

called the hyperspace.net.

Jared Tockstein:

We are available every place you listen to podcast.

Jared Tockstein:

Any place you can find retro made, you can find the hyperspace.

Jared Tockstein:

And, we also have, Uh, YouTube channel, , that , we keep saying we're

Jared Tockstein:

trying to grow, but we haven't quite got there yet, but, the hyperspace

Jared Tockstein:

podcasting in the 25th century.

Jared Tockstein:

Uh, just look, we, we've got a cool logo with a robot holding

Jared Tockstein:

a microphone and you'll know that you've found the right one.

Jared Tockstein:

So, , give us a listen if you like retro made.

Jared Tockstein:

I think you may like the hyperspace.

Katie:

Agreed It's probably the only podcasting in the 25th century

Jared Tockstein:

Oh yeah.

Jared Tockstein:

We're the only podcast in the 25th century.

Jared Tockstein:

We like to, to tell people that a lot, we're the only

Jared Tockstein:

show in the 25th century, so.

Katie:

Ah awesome well if you haven't already follow Retro Made on your

Katie:

podcast app of Choice and subscribe to the Retro Made Podcast YouTube

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Retromade

About the Podcast

Retromade
Your pop culture rewind
Welcome to the Retromade Podcast, where we take a nostalgic trip down memory lane and explore the best of the 80s and 90s pop culture.

Join us as we dive into the iconic movies, TV shows, music, fashion, cartoons, toys, and other cultural trends that defined these two decades. From the classic coming-of-age films of John Hughes to the unforgettable TV shows like The Cosby Show, Cheers, The Golden Girls, Friends, and Seinfeld; we’ll explore the moments that shaped our childhoods and continue to resonate with us today.

Get ready to reminisce about the music that dominated the charts, from the hair metal of Guns N’ Roses to the pop hits of Madonna and Michael Jackson. We’ll also take a look at the fads and trends that defined the era, from the neon colors of fashion to the boombox on every street corner.

But it’s not just about the big names and big moments. We’ll also dive deep into the lesser-known corners of 80s and 90s culture, from cult classic movies like The Breakfast Club and Big Trouble in Little China to underground bands that never quite made it big. And of course, we can’t forget the deliciously retro snacks & cereals that were a staple of our childhoods.

Join us as we explore the pop culture of the past, and discover how it still shapes our lives today. Whether you’re a child of the 80s, 90s, or just a fan of retro culture, this podcast is for you. So grab a slice of pizza, put on your favorite band t-shirt, and tune in to the Retromade Podcast.
Support This Show